PDA

View Full Version : Need advice- overnight trip w dog to Mt. Wash



stiffler
06-13-2007, 09:52 AM
My buddies and I are planning an overnight hiking trip to mount washington and I was wondering if anyone had a trail recommendation for hiking w a dog.
He is a 2 1/2 yr old weim that can handle the hike no problem. He has done 22 miles in a day on the AT. He will boulder over rocks but isn't crazy about it. We have come down the Lehigh Gap Area in PA and crossed Knife's edge on the AT, it wasn't a ton of fun for him.

I was also wondering about hut rules with dogs? Not allowed at all or Usually it depends on the crowd and people. We will be bring a tent.

Thanks for your help

KD Talbot
06-13-2007, 04:03 PM
Really the only trail I would be hesitant to bring a dog on would be Huntington Ravine Trail or some of the trails out of the Great Gulf. Keep in mind the Quartzite/ Micaschist makeup of the mountain is very tough on dogs feet and there are many dog rescues where Fido has torn and bloody paws. If your dog will where boots , bring them, if not, use something like Mushers Secret:

http://www.petcarerx.com/PCareRx/SimpleProduct.aspx?CS_ProductID=12085&CS_Category=dog_first&CS_Catalog=Petcare_Products&CatalogNavigationBreadCrumbs=Petcare_Products;Dog; dog_first

on his paws. If your dog is the kind that bolts all over rather than staying with you on the trail plan on keeping him on a leash.

Bring plenty of food and water. There are few places to get water above treeline. Also there can be very bad weather above treeline and I have seen shorthaired dogs soaked and shivering, so some sort of raincoat or sweater would be a good idea. On a clear warm day there is no place to get out of the sun above treeline, so this can be a problem, too. If your dog is having trouble, turn around and get him back down, he's a member of your party, and you should not hike beyond the capabilities of anyone in the party.

There are no dogs allowed in the huts. Likewise, there are no dogs allowed overnight at Hermit Lake Shelters. There is no camping above treeline in the Presidentials and there is no camping anywhere except at designated back country sites with a permit available at Pinkham Notch. The rangers are out checking and they will fine you. The best place for you to camp would probably be a few miles north of Pinkham Notch on Rte. 16 at Dolly Copp where dogs are allowed.

http://www.campsnh.com/dollycopp.htm

Her's a link to this same question in this forum a while back:


http://www.mountwashington.org/forums/showthread.php?t=901

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

KDT

Mike D
06-13-2007, 04:44 PM
You may already be aware of this, but there are no overnight accommodations on the summit. The AMC huts are often booked solid depending on the occasion, so be sure to make a reservation.

Any route to the summit is going to be tough on a dog's feet. The Jewel Trail might be suitable. Also, the Caps Ridge to Gulf Side route has the least elevation gain.

Be sure to follow the National Forest rules, which prohibit tenting above treeline unless you're on a deep snowpack.


My buddies and I are planning an overnight hiking trip to mount washington and I was wondering if anyone had a trail recommendation for hiking w a dog.
He is a 2 1/2 yr old weim that can handle the hike no problem. He has done 22 miles in a day on the AT. He will boulder over rocks but isn't crazy about it. We have come down the Lehigh Gap Area in PA and crossed Knife's edge on the AT, it wasn't a ton of fun for him.

I was also wondering about hut rules with dogs? Not allowed at all or Usually it depends on the crowd and people. We will be bring a tent.

Thanks for your help

KD Talbot
06-13-2007, 05:11 PM
I repeat. No dogs allowed in the huts, so if you reserve a bunk at a hut, don't bring your dog. Caps Ridge is only 100' less elevation gain then Amonoosuc Ravine Trail and adds 1.4 miles on a round trip.
KDT

Breeze
06-17-2007, 05:30 PM
A dog had to be rescued off the Jewell Trail this morning, apparently the dog went down YESTERDAY, late afternoon, so the dog and owner spent the night together trailside and awaited assistance today. It couldn't have been a good time to be up there overnight under any circumstance, but with a disabled dog, one's thoughts and fears.... certainly not an experience I'd like to live.

NH Fish and Game does not go out for dogs..... local, unpaid SAR volunteers handle those calls out of the goodness of their hearts AS TIME PERMITS.

Conditions above 5000' when SAR went up this morning were thick, unyielding fog, visibility about 25 feet and in rain showers, winds increasing. Conditions deteriorated quickly, visibility dropping to 10'-15' ( FEET) and winds going over 50 MPH, thunderstorms forcasted.

Very fortunately,the 2 folks who went up know MW like the back of their hands and their mission was accomplished in about 5 hours time, on their own time. They came down about 1 PM with dog and owner in the bed of a pick-up, and the dog was horizontal.

I don't have any details on the condition of the dog at this time.


Lots of good reasons to think, think, think, and think again, why it is a fine idea to hike MW with your dog.

Breeze

Charlie
06-17-2007, 08:22 PM
do you know the name of the SAR team

KD Talbot
06-17-2007, 09:01 PM
This is awful news. I'm afraid it happens a lot more frequently then we hear about. I hope everything turns out all right. I've been told of many accidents with dogs on MW, some with tragic endings. Be real sure of your dogs ability and treat them like any member of a climbing party. Watch for signs of fatigue or injury and turn around if need be. I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding this accident, but the only way to be sure of no accidents is to leave pooch at home, and this is unfeasable for some people, like me. Just remember that your dog faces the same risks you do out there and really has no choice about being there once you bring them. You are responsible for their welfare on this trip, so look out for them as though you brought your child there. Sometimes, despite careful planning accidents still happen, but many times they can be avoided with awareness and common sense. Not knowing the circumstances, I make no judgements, sometimes dogs sprain an ankle just like people. I hope he's allright. Emma does, too.
KDT

stiffler
06-19-2007, 12:13 AM
I am still on the fence about bring him. I am not worried about him making it up. I am more concerned about his pads and will look into getting the Musher's tomorrow. I am also concerned about tent camping, if I understand you correctly we will need to get a permit and camp below tree line in allowed areas? Which there would be some areas along Jewell trail correct?

We plan to arrive on a friday (late afternoon) and hike in a mile or so and camp, summit Saturday and hike around, then head back down to an area to camp, Sunday head back out to car and head home.

We were thinking, Jewell trail combined w Gulfside to summit
Then to come down we were think Crawford Path to Lake of the Clouds then to Ammonoosic trail, which if I understand correctly will put us close to the car. Having a hard time finding online map, going by fellow backpacker who has map set. Is that correct? Does this sound like a feasible path for the 21/2 year old weim? As I said he has logged 22, 15, 16, 17, and 20 mile days. Are there alot of large drop (5 ft +) offs coming down these trails that I would need to lift him down?

Than you for all the advice, as I said I am still on the fence. Truthfully, I am more concerned about the one hiker more than the dog. He just doesn't have alot of experience and is a really laid back fellow.

stiffler
06-19-2007, 01:20 AM
KD Talbot

I noticed that there is a dog, Emma, in alot of your photo sets but yet you seem so against taking a dog. Did you camp w the dog? Or just day trips?

I am not being sarcastic just curious. I am just seeking your advice. just fyi, My dog gets in anywhere between 12 to 30 miles a week between hiking and walks. THanks for all your help.

I am having a tough time, worring about where we will tent camp with the dog and best trails for dog and camping. i guess I am looking for a recommended route and worst case w plan ahead at the camp ground.

KD Talbot
06-19-2007, 06:21 AM
No. No, I'm not against bringing your dog. Emma has climbed Washington 10 times in the lasy 3-4 years. I just want you to be aware of the risks for dogs and that there are no dogs allowed in the huts.

The trails you've chosen are an excellent hike, and I cannot think of any big drops that a dog can't get around, maybe a couple of spots will be iffy, but Emma is much smaller than your dog, and manages fine.

The east side of the mountain and the Great Gulf have strict rules about camping, the west is more lenient. I think you'll be all set as far as tenting on the west side of MW. The rules are basically: No camping above treeline, you must be 200 feet from the trail, and a 1/4 mile from the trailhead and all water sources. No fires. No cutting anything. The usual back country rules, and I don't think you need a permit to do this.

Here's another thread about dogs:

http://www.mountwashington.org/forums/showthread.php?t=901

And another:

http://www.mountwashington.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1172

The AMC Guide to the White Mountains has a large section about back country camping and camping in and around MW.

KDT

stiffler
06-19-2007, 11:09 AM
Thanks for the info. I order the wax today for his paws. I appreciate all you advice and info on the trails.:)

Brad
06-19-2007, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the info. I order the wax today for his paws. I appreciate all you advice and info on the trails.:)
We use Mushers on our dog's paws in the winter when we go out for walks.

rockin rex
06-19-2007, 02:09 PM
When it comes to hiking with Dogs K.D. is the expert. What he has said is right on. Camping on the Jewell should be no problrm. Just make sure you are far enough off the trail. There are some good areas below tree to tent just keep your eyes out for them. The dog should have no problem on the Jewell. There might be a couple places on the Ammo Ravine where it might get a bit tricky but you should be alright. This is a GREAT loop and yes it brings you right back to the parking lot where you started. This is a perfect hike for doing Washington with a dog. Good Luck.

Brad
06-20-2007, 05:07 AM
do you know the name of the SAR team
I heard it was a combination of several groups all jumping in (running) to help. Some of the same groups that participated in the January 2007 rescue - RMC, AVSAR and some folks from the summit (including an intern) all helped. My information is all third hand. It is great to hear of folks willing to help others and really go out of their way to help. Thanks to all who participated!

FisherCat
06-20-2007, 04:23 PM
As a thought when we were kids we would take our dog up Edmands Trail to Crawford Path and head up that way to the summit. This doesn't solve your overnight problem, but we took her up for the first time when she was 3yrs. old and was a beagle/german shep mix.

Breeze
06-22-2007, 07:30 PM
I heard it was a combination of several groups all jumping in (running) to help. Some of the same groups that participated in the January 2007 rescue - RMC, AVSAR and some folks from the summit (including an intern) all helped. My information is all third hand. It is great to hear of folks willing to help others and really go out of their way to help. Thanks to all who participated!


Yes, Brad, there were some off-duty summit staffers ( NH State Parks people, Obs folks) as well as others. I don't particularly want to name names, these folks are pretty much the first responders in any incident, do their jobs exceedingly well and don't ask for publicity just for being themselves.

Randolph Mountain Club, AVSAR, Ski Patrol-- their memberships interrelate and overlap.

The dog was a Northern Breed mix and the problem was cut, bruised pads. The dog simply refused to walk on it's painful feet, and it didn't matter which direction, up or down. The owner didn't have enough strength to pick her dog up and carry it to the summit by herself.

Those are the kinds of things that can turn a fun outing into " why did I get myself into this".

In this case , all will be well.

Breeze

Brad
06-22-2007, 09:51 PM
My hat and hand go out to all these folks who help. It is wonderful that they make themselves available - help in tough conditions - and can do this. If you have ever been hiking and needed help of any sort, you know - these folks are fantastic. They do not want public recognition. They just want to help.

Thanks!

Back in the early 1960's I was leading a group of kids up Lions Head heading to the summit. It was a nice day - no problems. One section of trail in a section of scrub was like a bowling alley. The trail was carved out quite a bit and the scrub would not let you through on either side. We were all in a nice compact line and the lead person put his hand on a large boulder to push his way up - and the boulder started rolling down the trail.

The first person got out of the way as did the 2nd. The 3rd and 4th were up to their thighs in rock rubble that came down after the big boulder. The rock was rolling down the trail heading towards another person - he slipped and fell in the path. The boulder stopped over him - balancing on 2 small rocks with the person underneath and his arm pinned.

We got everyone above the slide - and then I took one of the best hikers and we ran to HoJo's. We got there is around 7 minutes! The ranger called for help - we grabbed jacks and pry bars - and ran back up in about 15 minutes.

Folks came up from Pinkham - carried a stretcher to us - saw it was closer to go to the Auto Road - so one ran back to Pinkham to direct the Dr up the road - and the same fellow ran from the road and helped carry the camper who had been pinned over to a waiting car. The rescue folks were fantastic. I have no idea who the folks were who helped - or any way of saying thanks. But, these folks truly do a wonderful service.

How did the fellow get out? The other counselor with us used a pocket knife to pick the dirt out behind the pinned arm - which lined up with a long crack in the rock. When we all got back to the scene everyone was out and away from the boulder.

stiffler
07-01-2007, 06:31 PM
Well, We make our hike to the summit with the dog(Hugo).

We started on the Jewell trail late Friday night and camp a few miles up.
Saturday morning we headed up the Jewell and picked up the Gulfside Trail to the summit. Weather was about 36F and wind gust up to 65mph, steady at 44mph. It was cold but well worthy it. Hugo(Weim) had no problems at all, I coated his paws good with the wax, just in case. The ranger came out and suprised me by telling me I could take the dog into the day hikers room with another dog since it was so cold. I was very appreciative and suprised.

We headed down Crawford's Path to Lake of the Clouds Hut then we went to the summit of Mt. Monroe. We finished our trip off by going down the Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail.

This was great loop with some amazing sights. It was nice to camp and just take our time, I would like to day hike it next time. I will have the pictures up soon. I took about 200 pictures. Hugo (weim) did great on the trails and made lots of friends.

Thanks for all the advice and concern.

Brad
07-01-2007, 08:43 PM
So glad to hear you had a good time! That is a great loop - but I have always done it in the reverse direction. The way you did it gave you a camping spot easier than the Ammo trail.

Thanks for the update.