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spyboy
01-21-2008, 07:43 PM
According to this article, paper maps are going the way of the buggy whip.

I understand that for cars (with indash gps, or suction cup models) but there's still a lot of importance in carrying a paper map, they don't need batteries!

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/01/technology_may_wipe_business_o.html

Bill O
01-21-2008, 07:53 PM
You can't stick thumb tacks in a computer screen. I'm sticking with paper.

Remember when newspapers were going away?

spyboy
01-21-2008, 08:18 PM
I'm still waiting for AOL to go away. And low-definition TV

K

Brad
01-21-2008, 09:03 PM
What is a paper map? We have not used them in years. If we need detailed directions or a map, we print off that portion we need from Delorme's Street Atlas.

Mike D
01-21-2008, 09:59 PM
It's terrific Monday-morning quarterbacking on my part, I just wonder why a company whose employees foresaw its demise would not have moved some of its eggs to a different basket. IBM would have been a long-forgotten adding machine company if they hadn't adapted to new technologies. DeLorme has all kinds of GPS and GIS products, without which I doubt they would be a profitable company.

As an aside, IBM was into real estate for a time and also made rifles during WWII. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_IBM#Non-computer_lines_of_business

mtruman
01-22-2008, 08:12 AM
As much as I love the electronic versions I'll neve give up paper for the trail. I tried a new method for the first time last summer which involved printing or copying the section of the map for the days hike with the route marked and turns noted and then laminating it in a small pouch so that it was weatherproof and pocket sized. Much better that pulling the full map out and unfolding/refolding it all the time. Still always bring the GPS as well although I use that as much for keeping an electronic record of the hike as for direction finding along the way. And as was noted by others here, the paper map can't run out of power. Anyone who goes out with just a GPS is asking for trouble...

spyboy
01-22-2008, 09:11 AM
I'm a definite gadget freak, but I know better than to solely rely on technology. Yes a gps is small, fast, can contain more maps than you could carry, and shows you where you are on the map (although I always remind people that a gps can tell you where you are when you're lost but not always tell you how to get to civilization).

Even in long road trips, I'll first plan my route on my computer, using google maps, earth, etc. I'll then print out some details (like confusing highway arteries where you need to be in the left land for the exit). I'll then transfer any points of interest to my car gps (it's a little portable unit) and then go on my trips. Most of the time I never refrence my printed maps, but it's always nice to have that detail available if needed. I'd like to think I have a pretty good internal navigation system (ok, not a compass, but I can remember directions fairly well) so usually just reviewing a top down map of my route beforehand is enough to get me through an area.

And in the urban canyons such as Boston, gps's don't work that well, and the signal reflection can cause some pretty wide margin of error (I was on a side street next to the elevated part of I-93, and the gps thought I was up on the highway and was telling me to get off at the next exit to turn around, when all I had to do was go under the highway and head the other way. Referencing maps ahead of time was helpful instead of blindly following the gps.

And gps's (at least current ones) don't know the bad areas of town to avoid (hmmm, maybe a gps that can pull crime statistics and then generate a thematic map to "push" you around the bad spots...sounds like something they'd do on the show Numb3rs)

Kirk

Patrad Fischroy
01-24-2008, 01:02 PM
Just a notice of a new product in the same vein

http://spatialnews.geocomm.com/dailynews/2008/jan/24/news5.html

nothing earth shattering, but with the trails database, it may be of interest to some here.

Brad
01-24-2008, 01:46 PM
I have used the Delorme TopoUSA product for several years. The new version looks interesting but I have not upgraded to version 7 yet.

The software does road as well as trail routing. Lots of Points of Interest. Topo maps and other stuff. Routes and maps can be downloaded to GPS units. It is another option to look at.

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?item=27525&section=10050&minisite=10020

billysinc
01-24-2008, 03:56 PM
We're men, we don't need to be told how to get somewhere, we'll find it ....................eventually.

spyboy
01-24-2008, 04:03 PM
Yeah, we're so far north you're either going to hit Canada or the ocean..eventually :)

Brad
01-24-2008, 05:33 PM
We just don't ask directions. We have other ways of figuring it out - eventually.

Trekker
01-29-2008, 04:15 PM
You guys have way more electronic gadgets then I'm even aware of . . .
I've never gone anywhere without my trusty paper map.
And probably never will -
A GPS? If you know how to read the paper maps correctly and use your compass, you would never NEED your GPS . . .

Brad
01-29-2008, 07:24 PM
You guys have way more electronic gadgets then I'm even aware of . . .
I've never gone anywhere without my trusty paper map.
And probably never will -
A GPS? If you know how to read the paper maps correctly and use your compass, you would never NEED your GPS . . .
If you have an analog watch you don't need your compass either - as long as the sun is visible.

Brad
01-29-2008, 07:26 PM
And just to be clear - there is no way one can have too many electronic gadgets.

spyboy
01-29-2008, 08:29 PM
you don't even need a watch if you have sun.

when you're going to take lunch, put a long stick in the ground, and take a smaller stick and mark the tip of the shadow of the long stick.

have lunch (or wait 10-15 minutes)

take another stick and mark the new tip of the long stick's shadow.

draw a straight line between the 2 shadow tip marks. (this is your rough east/west line)

draw a line from the big stick perpendicular through the e/w line and you have north


If you have an analog watch you don't need your compass either
- as long as the sun is visible.

Charlie
01-29-2008, 08:37 PM
maybe you should be the survivor man

Brad
01-30-2008, 06:20 AM
If you have a watch - hold it flat - point the hour hand (the little one) towards the sun - half way between the hour hand and "12" on the shorter arc is south.

The reverse can be done. If you have a compass you can tell what time it is.

I used to use this when canoeing on a winding river. Using a watch I could determine where I was on the river.

KD Talbot
01-30-2008, 07:00 AM
Sorry, I'm with Trekker on this one. Just curious, how well does that stick method work above treeline? Assuming I carry the sticks up from the forest, do I still need to bring a rock drill?

I guess the watch method would have merit except that the last thing I'm worried about on the trail is time, so I don't wear one. If I really need to know the time I can check it on my only gizmo, my camera.

Just call me "Old School". Happy trails!
KDT

spyboy
01-30-2008, 07:27 AM
If you don't have sticks you can use other items, like a pile of rocks, or your hiking poles, or any natural item that's casting a shadow. The key is the item casting the shadow can't move because it will affect the shadows (if it falls over you might not be able to get it back to the same position).

Of course this only works above the equator. (well, maybe it would work below the equator and be the opposite? But on the equator you're out of luck).

It's not very high tech, but I learned it in a wilderness survival class.

Of course, take your compass, maps and gps if you have them, unless you want to be purist :)

K



Sorry, I'm with Trekker on this one. Just curious, how well does that stick method work above treeline? Assuming I carry the sticks up from the forest, do I still need to bring a rock drill?

I guess the watch method would have merit except that the last thing I'm worried about on the trail is time, so I don't wear one. If I really need to know the time I can check it on my only gizmo, my camera.

Just call me "Old School". Happy trails!
KDT

Trekker
01-31-2008, 10:19 AM
Spyboy, I'm impressed with that bit of knowledge -
I'm going to remember that little tidbit and try it out next time I'm out there. Those little "natural" ways of figuring out direction, based on things you have around you, are by far the best bits of knowledge to have with you in the outdoors. I've heard of using your watch before, but had never heard this one. Thanks - learned something new today -
You really made my day . . .
Can't wait to try this one out . . .