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ityler
03-03-2008, 07:10 PM
Me and a gorup of friends hiked Mt. Washington back in April 2006. It was with my brother and his friends who were seniors in highschool at the time. It was the best hiking trip ive ever been on. The same group of friends are now planning to go back, April 2008 since this is our senior year and one of the last big events we will all do together. Unfortunatly, we're having trouble finding a place to camp that is near the mountain and relatively cheap. Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill O
03-03-2008, 08:36 PM
Is Dolly Copp open that time of year? That's a great campground, right down the road.

Steve M
03-03-2008, 09:12 PM
Dolly Copp doesn't open until May 16th and you will find that most if not all campgrounds will not be open until sometime in May.

KD Talbot
03-03-2008, 09:35 PM
Barnes Field at Dolly Copp is open year round and is plowed. You put the camping fee in the tube like most spots in the Whites. It's only a few bucks a night. There are no facilities, just a place to camp. Plan on being up to your arse in snow unless a solar flare hits the area between now and April.

KDT

Steve M
03-04-2008, 11:19 AM
Barnes Field at Dolly Copp is open year round and is plowed. You put the camping fee in the tube like most spots in the Whites. It's only a few bucks a night. There are no facilities, just a place to camp. Plan on being up to your arse in snow unless a solar flare hits the area between now and April.

KDT
That's true, you could camp just about anywhere in the forest as long as you follow the campsite rules here:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/backcountry_rules_2006-07.pdf

ityler
03-04-2008, 03:27 PM
thanks for the information..and the snow isnt a problem, it'll just make things more interesting

ityler
03-04-2008, 03:32 PM
another thing though...last time we went most of us were not prepared for the conditions...what are some thigns that we would need for April?

Bill O
03-04-2008, 03:40 PM
another thing though...last time we went most of us were not prepared for the conditions...what are some thigns that we would need for April?

Probably the stuff you didn't have last time.

Do you want to elaborate on how you weren't prepared?

billysinc
03-04-2008, 03:42 PM
Bring the kitchen sink

Things you might encounter in April on Mt. Washington:

-20f to +60f temps
231mph winds
raging water crossings
mud
snow
ice
rain
hail
sleet
lightning
avalanches

KD Talbot
03-04-2008, 03:54 PM
If you're going to car camp, Barnes Field is the way to go. If you're going to backpack on the east side of Washington, then Hermit Lake Shelter is about your only choice unless you go into the Great Gulf. Along with the link above, add these to the restrictions:

CAMPING

Presidential Range-Dry River Wilderness

Wilderness regulations, intended to protect Wilderness resources and promote opportunities for challenge and solitude, prohibit use of motorized equipment or mechanical means of transportation of any sort. Camping and wood or charcoal fires are not allowed within 200 ft. of any trail except at designated campsites.
Hiking and camping group size must be no larger than 10 people. Camping and fires are also prohibited above the treeline (where trees are less than 8 ft. tall), except in winter, when camping is permitted above the treeline in places where snow cover is at least 2 ft. deep, but not on any frozen body of water. Many shelters have been removed, and the remaining ones will be dismantled when major maintenance is required; one should not count on using any of these shelters.

Forest Protection Areas

The WMNF has established a number of Forest Protection Areas (FPAs)—
formerly known as Restricted Use Areas—where camping and wood or charcoal fires are prohibited throughout the year. The specific areas are under continual review, and areas are added to or subtracted from the list in order to provide the greatest amount of protection to areas subject to damage by excessive camping, while imposing the lowest level of restrictions possible. A general list of FPAs in this section follows, but since there are often major changes from year to year, one should obtain current information on FPAs from the WMNF.

(1) No camping is permitted above treeline (where trees are less than
8 ft. tall), except in winter, and then only in places where there is at least
2 ft. of snow cover on the ground—but not on any frozen body of water,
and not on the east face of Mt. Washington's summit cone from Boott
Spur to Nelson Crag (the area above Tuckerman and Huntington Ravines,
including the Alpine Garden area). The point where the above-treeline
restricted area begins is marked on most trails with small signs, but the
absence of such signs should not be construed as proof of the legality of
a site.

(2) No camping is permitted within a quarter mile of any trailhead,
picnic area, or any facility for overnight accommodation such as a hut,
cabin, shelter, tentsite, or campground, except as designated at the facility
itself. In the area covered by Section 1, camping is also forbidden within a
quarter mile of Glen Ellis Falls.

Anyone tired of me posting this yet?:rolleyes:

So, don't get the idea you can camp "just about anywhere in the forest".

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/campsites/hermit-lake-shelter.cfm

KDT

ityler
03-04-2008, 10:45 PM
Probably the stuff you didn't have last time.

Do you want to elaborate on how you weren't prepared?


well, for starters there was six of us..we split into two groups..

in group one, two outta the three kids were wearing jeans, sneakers and winter coats. the one other kid was in shorts, hiking boots and a fleece. each one had a hydration pack, hat and only one had sunglasses

in group two (which was my group) two kids were wearing jeans and a pullover sweatshirt with hiking boots. i wore boots, wind pants, and a fleece...
two of us had hydration packs, we all had gloves and hats and only i had sunglasses (i didnt know how much of a difference theyd make until my two friends started complaining about the brightness)

needless to say, we all had our different problems with what we were wearing and didnt bring what we needed...

Bill O
03-05-2008, 06:36 AM
Sounds like you need warmer gear, and I don't mean two pairs of jeans.

If you are camping in the winter (which April pretty much is) you need several layers. Long underwear plus an insulating layer plus a waterproof layer. Sometimes you might need more. This is the time of year to buy this kind of gear, it is always on sale now. Buy good quality stuff and it will last a long time.

A hat is key, that adds significant warmth.

If you are sleeping on the snow you need an insulating pad. A therma or ridge-rest isn't just for comfort. The main purpose is to insulate you from the ground that will endlessly suck the heat out of you.

ityler
03-05-2008, 12:54 PM
thanks for the information. the place we stayed last time was called Blackberry Crossing Campground. I thought it was pretty good, and it was pretty cheap. would the places anyone else suggested be any better?

KD Talbot
03-05-2008, 01:39 PM
Blackberry Crossing is on the Kancamagus Highway. Barnes Field is a few miles north of Pinkham Notch, much closer to Mount Washington. Hermit Lake Shelters is in Tuckerman Ravine.

KDT

ityler
03-05-2008, 07:26 PM
the trail i took last time was up through tuckermans ravine. the other group went up through lions head. we arent sure what trail we're taking yet but personally i want to try lion's head. is there any specific gear we would need for this or any other trail? or is there a better trail we should try?

KD Talbot
03-05-2008, 09:36 PM
Tuckerman Ravine Trail will likely be closed above the Bowl. For Lion Head you'll need full winter gear including crampons. Jeans, sweatshirts and sneakers won't cut it. April is still winter on this mountain. You may hit a beautiful day, or you may hit a blizzard.
Reread this thread. Your questions give away that your group are not experienced winter campers or hikers. You may want to consider something less challenging than Mount Washington. Mounts Jackson or Pierce in the Southern Presidentials may be a safer bet. Get a map. It will show you where the campgrounds are, and some other possible places to hike.

http://www.mountwashington.org/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=14

KDT

Bill O
03-06-2008, 06:30 AM
Did you actually climb Mount Washington in April 2006? Do you have any more details on that trip? You climbed Tuckerman Ravine with ice axes and crampons?

I don't remember how much snow there was in 2006, but this year will be totally different.

ityler
03-06-2008, 08:50 AM
we made it to the summit. the snow one tuckermans ravine was went and thick. im not sure how lions head was because i didnt take that trail the other group did. After we made it up tuckermans its wasnt bad, we met up with the other group at the summit and went back down through tuckermans (which was much easier than going up it)

they said that lions head was pretty much all sow that was compacted and frozen. like i said tuckermans was just deep wet snow.

Trekker
03-06-2008, 11:32 AM
I'm guessing that you folks have already thought about and dismissed the option of staying at the Joe Dodge Lodge. It's open during April and even non-member adults can stay there for only $57.00 a night in April, which includes a good dinner and breakfast. Hard to beat that price when you think about how much food costs these days. AND you're right there at the trail head - depending, of course, on where you plan to enter and hike . . .
Just a thought . . .

lordvoldemort
04-15-2008, 04:04 PM
I know you are not allowed to camp above tree-line except during the winter. So are you allowed to camp above tree line in the next few weeks or not ? With so much snow, would it still be considered winter ? Also, are you allowed to camp near any of the huts above tree line eg. Madision hut or the lake of the clouds ?

thanks,

Steve M
04-15-2008, 05:51 PM
I know you are not allowed to camp above tree-line except during the winter. So are you allowed to camp above tree line in the next few weeks or not ? With so much snow, would it still be considered winter ? Also, are you allowed to camp near any of the huts above tree line eg. Madision hut or the lake of the clouds ?

thanks,
Go to this link and read post #5. It explains camping above treeline.

http://www.mountwashington.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2344&highlight=rules

KD Talbot
04-15-2008, 07:07 PM
The rules are posted in post #10 of THIS thread. They answer those questions and more.:confused:

KDT

Steve M
04-15-2008, 08:29 PM
See, I knew you wouldn't have to look very far to find your answer.:)

lordvoldemort
04-16-2008, 11:58 AM
I'm sorry, i did'nt pose my question right. I did go thru this thread and the links in the thread before posting the question.

It's officially spring now but there is plenty of snow(more than 2 ft in some places as per rules) above tree-line with winter like conditions. The rules say winter+2 ft of snow. And if i was wondering if the rules strictly mean if winter ends on Mar 20. So can i or not camp above tree-line ?

thanks,

KD Talbot
04-16-2008, 07:57 PM
It's cool as long as you've got 2' of snowpack. It actually being spring instead of winter isn't a factor as far as I know.

KDT

lordvoldemort
04-17-2008, 10:56 AM
Got it. Thanks...

Magpie
04-19-2008, 09:49 AM
Pretty sure there is no camping above tree line ever except at designated areas. anything below tree line you even need to camp at a designated area or 200? feet off trail. Cant remember I'm just pulling out the gear and guide books.

You can winter camp at any of the WNF sites.

I have put my first hike off till late May.

Bill O
04-19-2008, 12:44 PM
Pretty sure there is no camping above tree line ever except at designated areas. anything below tree line you even need to camp at a designated area or 200? feet off trail. Cant remember I'm just pulling out the gear and guide books.


That's not true. There is a snow exception. Please see earlier threads for more details.

KD Talbot
04-20-2008, 07:52 PM
... and there are no designated areas above treeline.

KDT

Steve M
04-20-2008, 09:02 PM
... and there are no designated areas above treeline.

KDT
And no camping on frozen bodies of water ever!

Charlie
04-21-2008, 07:54 PM
And no camping on frozen bodies of water ever!


can you if they are not frozen :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Steve M
04-22-2008, 01:58 AM
can you if they are not frozen :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Sure if the bottom of your tent is a rubber raft.:D