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Rich
12-08-2008, 02:04 PM
Time for a new camera. What do you guys think of this deal from Best Buy.

Canon EOS Rebel XS 10mp D-SLR w/ 18-55 lens AND a Canon 75-300 lens for $600.

Are the Rebels a lower quality compared to the D series? I want excellent quality for under $1000. Possible? What am I shooting? Nature, family (kids), mountains, a little of everything I guess.

Thanks for your help guys!

JimS
12-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Time for a new camera. What do you guys think of this deal from Best Buy.

Canon EOS Rebel XS 10mp D-SLR w/ 18-55 lens AND a Canon 75-300 lens for $600.

Are the Rebels a lower quality compared to the D series? I want excellent quality for under $1000. Possible? What am I shooting? Nature, family (kids), mountains, a little of everything I guess.

Thanks for your help guys!

The cameras are at the point now where they can outresolve the lenses that you put in front of them. The Rebel series has a great sensor, but simpler controls and a plastic body. This accounts for the price reduction between the d series, but honestly, you would NEVER outgrow it. I have considered 'upgrading' to an xsi from my 20D...but really haven't outgrown my 20D.

Now to the heart of my remark. If the cameras can outresolve the lenses, you at this point should focus on the lenses. And the lenses you propose are pretty bad. I had both, I was constantly disappointed. I sold them both within a week. I recently put a 75-300 on it again, and wow...it's not good.

I would forego the kit lens, buy a lesser camera and put more $ into the glass. A sigma 17-70 replaces the kit lens well, and wait for a modest telephoto, or splurge $500 for the 70-200 F4.

Don't get those lenses...It's just my opinion...but it's true!

Jim

bc529
12-08-2008, 02:12 PM
check out www.bhphoto.com they are out of NY and they usually have good deals. They are a great company and most professionals get their stuff there and I have ordered from them multiple time and never had a problem.

Rich
12-08-2008, 02:36 PM
The cameras are at the point now where they can outresolve the lenses that you put in front of them. The Rebel series has a great sensor, but simpler controls and a plastic body. This accounts for the price reduction between the d series, but honestly, you would NEVER outgrow it. I have considered 'upgrading' to an xsi from my 20D...but really haven't outgrown my 20D.

Now to the heart of my remark. If the cameras can outresolve the lenses, you at this point should focus on the lenses. And the lenses you propose are pretty bad. I had both, I was constantly disappointed. I sold them both within a week. I recently put a 75-300 on it again, and wow...it's not good.

I would forego the kit lens, buy a lesser camera and put more $ into the glass. A sigma 17-70 replaces the kit lens well, and wait for a modest telephoto, or splurge $500 for the 70-200 F4.

Don't get those lenses...It's just my opinion...but it's true!

Jim


Jim..good to know! Congrats on you engagement too! So the Rebels are ok? Just by one without the lens and go with one like the Sigma? How about a good telephoto?

JimS
12-08-2008, 03:25 PM
Jim..good to know! Congrats on you engagement too! So the Rebels are ok? Just by one without the lens and go with one like the Sigma? How about a good telephoto?


Yeah..the rebels are more than fine. I'd get the sigma to start and see if you feel limited either long or wide...but 17-70 will get you by for a week or so!

CHRIS
12-08-2008, 04:14 PM
I have an older Rebel 6.3 mp in prestine cond. and I have taken some decent photos with my 70-300 ( on the tripode) but I don't use my 18-55 lense that came with it I bought a 28-135 i/s lens. I am going to be either putting it craigs list or trading it in as soon as my camera shop calls me to tell me my 5d mark 2 is in. I hate waiting. But my rebel has been good to me and it is pretty simple to use.

h2oeco
12-08-2008, 04:23 PM
Not to complicate things, but... :-)

Two stories -

A few weeks ago, my sister and I took several hundred pictures of my niece and nephew, trying to get one for her to use to for a Christmas card - she later called to say that my pictures were much clearer, brighter, etc. than hers, even though we were standing right next to each other when taking them... She was using a Canon Rebel Xti, with canon lenses, I was using a Nikon D-80 w/ a Nikon lens...

As a result, she wanted to get a better lens for Christmas. I talked to a knowledgeable friend who works for a client's photo shop - and has worked there for 30+ years. He essentially said not to bother putting a really good lens on a Rebel, Canon lens or otherwise - in his opinion, you'd be wasting your time/money.

Consequently, I got a call from my sister the other day - she was at Costco, and there was a good deal on a Nikon D-90, which she is now the happy owner of... :-)

Almost all of the pictures that I've posted were taken with my D-80 - though some were taken with my $300 Canon SD800 - unless you look at the Exif data, I don't think the average viewer (myself included) can tell the difference...

Buy what you are most comfortable/skillful with, and can comfortably afford - if you stick with Nikon or Canon, I think you'll have a hard time finding a truly "bad" camera.

As far as third-party lenses, Sigma and Tamron are both good. The lens for some of my summit pictures is a wide angle Tamron.

Hope this helps.

Ed

mtruman
12-08-2008, 05:06 PM
I won't comment on the camera choice - Jim, Ed and others here are far more qualified than I am for that. I will however say that you aren't going to get your best deal at Best Buy (or most local stores). B&H as was suggested by bc529 is a good online option. There will probably be some who disagree with me, but my favorite online store is BuyDig.com (http://www.buydig.com/shop/home.aspx). I've bought my last 4 digital cameras from them and their service and reliability has been fantastic. Usually the best prices around as well. The price from both them and B&H are about $100 less than the Best Buy price on the XS (camera only) - $469 with free shipping and no tax.

Brad
12-08-2008, 06:46 PM
I generally agree with the above. I have several friends with the Rebel and they love it. The key, as Jim says, is the lens. I have a 24-85mm Canon lens that came with the D60 that I no longer use. It works fine, but does not have the quality and range I need.

I first got the Canon 28-135mm IS and loved it. This is my standard, most of the time lens. It has the range for most of what I shoot. In addition to range think about how much weight you are willing to carry. I am willing to pack a 70-300mm IS lens I got later to extend the range with a nice overlap and a 16-35mm wide angle f2.8 lens. With good overlap between lens you can reduce the number of swaps of lens while you are shooting.

Get the lens you want over time - but get as good a lens as you can.

Orgnoi1
12-09-2008, 05:48 AM
Wow... this could end up being a long post from me... so for now I will say... that I agree with JimS... and when I get to work and have a couple minutes I will repost on all this... ;)

Rich
12-09-2008, 08:57 AM
Wow... this could end up being a long post from me... so for now I will say... that I agree with JimS... and when I get to work and have a couple minutes I will repost on all this... ;)

Looking forward to it...

Everyone else...THANKS! Lots of great help! I used B&H back in high school when I was big into photography. Of course, it was catalog shopping or going to their store in the city. I wish my lens's from my Minolta SLR would fit on a new D-SLR.

Orgnoi1
12-09-2008, 11:59 AM
Time for a new camera. What do you guys think of this deal from Best Buy.

Canon EOS Rebel XS 10mp D-SLR w/ 18-55 lens AND a Canon 75-300 lens for $600.

Are the Rebels a lower quality compared to the D series? I want excellent quality for under $1000. Possible? What am I shooting? Nature, family (kids), mountains, a little of everything I guess.

Thanks for your help guys!

OK here goes...

First off... welcome to the dilemma that plagues just about everyone interested in getting into the dSLR field... :eek:

The deal stated IS a good deal... but this is more a lesson about yourself than it is about the gear I guess... for myself I wouldnt buy those lenses... been there done that... but for someone who is asking if this is a good set to start up with... its great... and it will last you a long time... IF you dont plan on upgrading and arent looking to have professional image quality and pay professional image quality prices...

What matters more than anything and always has is that the glass be as good or preferably better than the camera you choose. These days even entry level dSLRs have amazing sensor quality so with that just about any glass will work... and better glass will work REALLY well... it just boils down to what you want to spend for this hobby... will this be a hobby you will use WHILE doing other hobbies or are you planning on (like some of us) getting WAY too into it and having the bills to show for it for years...LOL

For a newer photographer I would prefer to "sell them" on less expensive glass that will do the same as the nuclear-namebrand stuff such as Canon or Nikon... as Sigma, Tamron, and Tokina produce some really good glass. The main thing you have to remember that no matter what ANYONE tells you... YOU produce a good picture... the camera and lens dont... I have seen STELLAR shots taken with point N shoot cameras... and have seen VERY crappy pictures taken with a 1DsMarkIII and L-Lens...

So to wrap this up in a neat little bundle for you... a Canon Rebel XS is a fine camera to start your trip down the digital SLR road... the lenses you listed will certainly be good "starter" lenses to go with... should you possibly get a higher quality lens if you can afford it?... plainly... yes... but if you cant you will certainly be ABLE to take pictures that can easily be just as good as John-Q Professional if you take the time to learn the gear you purchase... which is half the challenge right there...

I would suggest not heeding my or anyones advice on the internet too... I would say you really should NOT do what myself and my girlfriend did and not FULLY research our initial purchase... we were both new to digital SLRs but had both shot professionally for a few years with film... we ended up buying a bunch of gear that we turned right back over and lost out on some cash in the process... so....

I would say to follow a few of the following sites and watch both what people that are doing the shooting are saying and what the sites reviews say per each lens...

www.fredmiranda.com <==All Brands Forums
www.photography-on-the.net <==Canon Forums
www.nikonians.org <==Nikon Forums
www.northeastfoto.com <==All Brands Forums (Shameless plug for my own site for the Northeastern USA)

If you have any specific lens Q&A I would say post up... or if you feel the need to PM send away...

Patrad Fischroy
12-09-2008, 12:56 PM
Personally, I shoot canons, but I cannot asay that I would recommend them over many other brands. I know Nikons to be excellent and with the added advantage that they have maintained better backward compatability on their lenses. Remember that when you invest in DSLR, you are pretty much committing yourself to a brand unless you are willing to lose a bit of money shifting to another brand. One other thought is that if you still do have that old Minolta glass, you may want to check their compatability with Sony. I can't claim any real knowledge on that, but since Sony bought Konica-Minolta, I thought that they had retained the mounting system.

Great Guinness Ghost
12-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Orgnoi1 couldn't have said it better. You take good pictures not the camera or lens. I've been shooting with the Digital Rebel Xti for several years now. My lenses are the 18-55 that came with kit. I invested in the 70-300 IS zoom and a 10-22 Super wide zoom. This offers me quite a range of versatility. I'm lucky enough to work with a guy who once ran his own business a pro photographer. His info has been priceless. I think the big lesson in DSLR's is to know your equipment. These cameras offer quite a range of options to be creative and get great photos. My friend has taught me that although you can fix most anything in Photoshop, it's better to know how to get the shot you want in the field. Trying to scan through and fix hundreds of photos on the computer is boring. My only drawback to my equipment is that it all weighs about fourteen pounds. Decisions, decisions....all that camera equip. or beer?? That's why I started having MeridenFF tag along on our hikes in the Whites. He still thinks a six pack weighs 14 lbs. Anyhow, have fun with whatever you decide on and we look forward to you posting your pictures!

Orgnoi1
12-10-2008, 07:19 AM
My friend has taught me that although you can fix most anything in Photoshop, it's better to know how to get the shot you want in the field.


Great advise here...not to soapbox TOO much but I believe that the "art" of photography has lost significant ground to the "art" of photoshop... nothing is wrong with processing and post processing a photo... but to take that photo the person should be able to get the best photo possible BEFORE they get to photoshop...in my humble opinion....

UncleFester
12-10-2008, 07:42 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but everyone who mentioned the camera is fine, invest in the glass is absolutely correct.

I had that exact same package when i ventured into dslr and found out too soon the 75 to 300 was complete garbage, what people don't realize is when extended out to 300, any movement or shaking of your hand is amplified by the distance and on cheap lenses like that you can't set the shutter speed low high enough because of lousy F stop, so you need a tripod if you want a crisp image... to compensate expensive lenses have an extremely low aperture of F1 or F2 so you can set the shutter speed very fast and still grab all available light. These usually run for thousands of dollars...this is why you see all the sideline guys with the long white lenses....

Also, Canon and I think some others have lenses with Is or image stabilization, that helps immensely.

I'd opt for a lower F stop and a shorter mm lens than a higher zoom any day.
Get closer to your subject if you need.

After I tossed that 75 to 300, I ended up with wide angle zoom that worked a lot better, a macro, a fisheye and finally invested in a longer zoom all with low F stops. To me that's so important.

hope that helps

spyboy
12-10-2008, 04:07 PM
I've got the 70-300 Telephoto with IS, and it's alright. At full 300mm it tends to look a little foggy to me. But I have taken some great images with it.

As for the 18-55 kit lens (that came with my Rebel XT), I don't really like it. I find it can't zoom in or out far enough to make it worthwhile.

I occasionally use it on my 40D, but when I sell my Rebel XT, the 18-55 will go with it.

Kirk

Great Guinness Ghost
12-10-2008, 08:14 PM
Even the sideline guys with lenses worth thousands of dollars still use a monopod. Whenever possible I tripod my camera. For hiking the flexible Gorilla pod works great and it will hold this camera with a zoom lens. Thousands of bucks on lenses, or a few hundred on a good tripod and ballhead? Unless you're going to work for S. I. or freelance for Outdoor Photographer (good luck if that's your ambition) than I'd keep it simple 'til you're ready to make that leap.

Orgnoi1
12-10-2008, 09:23 PM
Believe it or not... I barely EVER use a pod of any kind unless they are planned long exposures... theres a running joke on my site that I can handhold anything... I find that shooting wildlife (what I would use my 500L for mainly) even a monopod seems very limiting to me... I will some times keep it on but not extended so I can use it to drape the lens over my shoulder... I would probably use a pod if I was shooting team sports though since the shooting is very linear...

Brad
12-11-2008, 06:02 AM
We have touched on this before, but REI has very light weight trekking poles that double as a mono-pod. http://www.rei.com/product/745686

I have a pair and love them for both hiking and it is rare I use them as a pod, but they are handy just in case. I had a pair and my wife liked them for walking the dog on an icy road, so I had to get another pair for me.

spyboy
12-11-2008, 06:26 AM
I have a Trax walking stick that has the camera screw under the knob handle.

I got my brother the Leki National Geographic Edition walking stick, it can extend to almost 72 inches for taking pictures.

You can also get a small cabon fiber tripod that's light enough to carry but allows you setup heavier equipment in the field, but those babies are pricey! I'd go with a walking stick that doubles as a monopod to start.

Kirk

Patrad Fischroy
12-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Looking forward to it...

Everyone else...THANKS! Lots of great help! I used B&H back in high school when I was big into photography. Of course, it was catalog shopping or going to their store in the city. I wish my lens's from my Minolta SLR would fit on a new D-SLR.

I came across this article about Sony. If that old Minolta glass is autofocus, you may want to look at it

http://photo.net/equipment/sony/

Rich
12-17-2008, 09:30 AM
Great article. Thanks. Unfortunately they are all manual.

Orgnoi1
12-18-2008, 06:15 AM
So Rich... did you decide on what route you plan on going? Inquisitive minds want to know... :)

Patrad Fischroy
12-18-2008, 09:05 AM
Great article. Thanks. Unfortunately they are all manual.

Too bad, I ran into the same problem with my Canon lenses, the old FD lenses are not compatible with the newer systems.

Patrad Fischroy
03-23-2009, 04:13 PM
I have a Trax walking stick that has the camera screw under the knob handle.

I got my brother the Leki National Geographic Edition walking stick, it can extend to almost 72 inches for taking pictures.

You can also get a small cabon fiber tripod that's light enough to carry but allows you setup heavier equipment in the field, but those babies are pricey! I'd go with a walking stick that doubles as a monopod to start.

Kirk

Once again, I came across something that I tought might be good to share here as it pertains to hiking and photography

http://www.trek-tech.com/products/trekpods.html

One thing that intrigued me was their claim that it can stow in carry-on baggage. My hiking poles with the photo head on them are all too long for this. So when I travel, I find myself without.

mtruman
03-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Once again, I came across something that I tought might be good to share here as it pertains to hiking and photography

http://www.trek-tech.com/products/trekpods.html

One thing that intrigued me was their claim that it can stow in carry-on baggage. My hiking poles with the photo head on them are all too long for this. So when I travel, I find myself without.

The only problem is that with today's rules they might consider it a weapon :eek:

I know that tripods are expensive but something that costs $400 that is meant to double as a treking pole seems a bit over the top. Cool gadget though...

Brad
03-23-2009, 05:41 PM
I agree with Mark - it is very pricey considering the alternatives. For $50 you can get an ultra light weight treking pole which doubles as a monopod from REI. This tripod says it can handle 13.5 pounds. Put a long heavy lens on it and it seems it would be straining to stay up. Weight pushing down? Fine. Weight working to pull it over? I am doubtful.

Remember the picture of me in Wildcat parking lot? 6 pounds of lens hanging out a long ways. I am not sure I would trust this to hold up for heavy equipment. And how would it do for uneven ground or rocks?

http://images46.fotki.com/v1482/photos/5/8235/7318841/IMG_0569-vi.jpg

Ok, I know i am an extreme case. But . . .

Steve M
03-23-2009, 09:22 PM
Brad, You keep posting this image of you it is going to end up on the wall in the MWO museum!:)

mtruman
03-23-2009, 10:19 PM
Brad, You keep posting this image of you it is going to end up on the wall in the MWO museum!:)

As well it should ;)

Brad
03-24-2009, 09:41 AM
They are going to have a special section for pictures of antiques.

Steve M
03-24-2009, 10:24 AM
They are going to have a special section for pictures of antiques.

If that's the case then maybe you will get a spot right next to the stove.:D

Rich
03-24-2009, 10:39 AM
So Rich... did you decide on what route you plan on going? Inquisitive minds want to know... :)

Sorry, just saw this. I haven't decided yet but, leaning towards the Rebel xsi with a Sigma 17-70. Would like something soon.

CHRIS
03-24-2009, 12:09 PM
I think he is just showing off that nice fleece jacket :D.
No just kidding it just keeps reminding that I failed my 1001.00 mark last year:(.

Charlie
03-24-2009, 08:35 PM
Brad, You keep posting this image of you it is going to end up on the wall in the MWO museum!:)



They are going to have a special section for pictures of antiques.

Brad you should not call your self an antique :D


I think he is just showing off that nice fleece jacket :D.
:(.

he loved and is proud of that jacket
and so would i if i had one :(

Brad
03-24-2009, 08:51 PM
I was wearing it today when I was out taking pictures. Another person was out watching the sunrise and we started talking. Very quickly he shifted to talking about MWO because I was wearing the fleece. Great advertising.

Rich
12-15-2009, 12:30 PM
It's been a year? A YEAR? WOW...time flies and time for that camera!

Decided on this set up...

--Canon EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera (Body)
Price $608

--Sigma Zoom Super Wide Angle AF 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro Autofocus
Price $369

--Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG OS Telephoto Zoom
Price $399

Ordering it from B&H. Prices seem pretty good.
Thanks again for everyone's input/suggestions/stories!!! I appreciate it!

Happy Holidays!!

CHRIS
12-15-2009, 01:15 PM
Good luck with all your new toys. I buy pretty much all my camera gear from B+H and have no problems with them in any way. I find thier prices are really good.

billysinc
12-15-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm building a fixture here at work to measure the thickness of porcine materials and it uses a DSLR in the process.
The camera body I ordered for it is a Canon 5D. Do you think they'll notice if I swap it out for a point and shoot? :rolleyes: