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AMRcrew
12-16-2008, 10:57 AM
Hello all,

My name is Brent Baade I am in a national program called Project Lead The Way which helps students like me to excel and prepare for careers in mathematics, science, and engineering. For the class I am enrolled in, my group has to find, justify, design, and then test a uniquely individual research project. We are doing our project on backpacking and the better use of water container or bottles while backpacking.

We have done research that shows problems with the current designs for carrying water while backpacking. We have found many people that say it is hard to reach their water bottles out of their backpacks. This is very annoying, as many of you may know, but hydration packs are any better. They often leak or break. Also, when you are using one, you cannot check how much water is left in the pack. This can lead to running out of water unexpectedly, which can lead to dehydration.

If you have any opinions on the matter, please post a response or send us an email. Any response will greatly help us and we would greatly appreciate your help.

Thank you all and have a happy holiday!

Bill O
12-16-2008, 08:37 PM
If I go on a multi-day trip I always bring a backup to my water-bladder. Usually a bag Nalgene that I can roll up and store in my bag. The consequences to water-bladder failure are too severe without a backup.

I disagree about the statement that they are hard to tell how full they are. True, it is hard to tell how much water is left. But I don't agree that can lead to dehydration. Chances are I just sucked down 80 oz of water in my bladder and I'm not at risk of dehydration anytime soon.

ColdWeatherClimber
12-16-2008, 08:57 PM
What's wrong with just getting a water bottle out of your pack, or from inside your parka? Seems a lot of technical BS for water carrying :D I still haven't started to use a camelback. A friend of mine has used one for years and has never had one of the bladders fail yet.

Bill O
12-16-2008, 09:04 PM
What's wrong with just getting a water bottle out of your pack, or from inside your parka? Seems a lot of technical BS for water carrying :D I still haven't started to use a camelback. A friend of mine has used one for years and has never had one of the bladders fail yet.

Good point. Its actually been awhile since I've used my camelbak. Its a process to use that thing. Water bottles just work with no hassle.

I can take it out of my pack without stopping. And it takes just a few seconds to stop and take a sip. Its not like I'm trying to win the Eco-Challenge or whatever that race is called now.

ColdWeatherClimber
12-16-2008, 10:53 PM
Exactly..... :D

mtruman
12-16-2008, 10:57 PM
Ease of access to the bottles depends on the pack. I've got a couple that are very easy access with and one that I basically can't access without a hand from my partner. That one is unfortunately my multi-day pack. I've also used an insulated zip top holder that fits a standard size Nalgene with a Velcro loop that I hang on the pack waist strap. Makes for easy access and keeps the bottle from freezing in winter (and cold on summer day hikes). I really don't like bladders - the bottles are just easier in my opinion.

ColdWeatherClimber
12-17-2008, 05:31 AM
Exactly..... :D

Oops.... sorry guys, I didn't realize this was a 'power post'. I just read about it in another section.

Getting back to water while climbing/hiking/backpacking with a pack, most of the time water can be had very easily if you just take a little time to plan it out. For instance my big Dana pack, well, I don't want to keep taking it off and back on for a little water. If I want water, I can access the top lid above my head. So if the temps aren't going to freeze the water to ice, I'll keep one or two up there. If temps are cold.... then I will keep a bottle inside my parka, and put the others inside the pack, upside down.

Brad
12-17-2008, 05:47 AM
I have had the hose on my camelbak freeze up. That was annoying. So, either you have to blow back the water out of the hose into the bladder after drinking or get a replacement hose that is insulated - or do both. I have the insulated hose option and have been pleased with it.

Steve M
12-17-2008, 07:47 AM
I like to drink my full day supply of water before I leave. That way there I'm carrying it in my stomach.;)

Rich
12-17-2008, 09:50 AM
I hang Nalgenes from carabiners on either side of my hip strap on the pack. They're close to me so they're not bouncing or banging into me and are easily reachable. And on my big pack, the water bottle holders on the sides are angled for quick retrieval. I don't use bladders at all; IMO they're more of a hassle than good.....unless I have to pee.

BlueDog
12-17-2008, 10:02 AM
Well Brent, you've certainly come to the right place for a lot of opinions and info!

I don't get to hike nearly as frequent as others on this forum, but here's my experiences.

Before doing more hiking I did a lot more mountain biking, kayaking and carried a CamelBack. I think they have a superior product and have never experienced leaks with mine. I've got two different size packs for these and four bladders. My issues with them are that they need a little more maintenance than you standard water bottle, keeping the bladder and hose clean. I've purchased the CamelBack cleaning kits with the brushes, sanitization tablets and rack for drying. I can typically tell by the weight if I'm getting low on water. Only once, during a 24 hour adventure race, did I ever run dry unexpectedly, however my teammates each had water to spare.

When I go out on the trail I typically carry two large Nalgyene bottles for my water supply. My backback does have a pocket for the bladder, but I've found that it takes up too much room in the pack and I can place the bottles in the side pockets of my pack. I always carry a Steripen in my gear, so I'm never too far away from drinkable water. This allows me to only carry what I need.

While the Camelback bladder is far more usable, and when my pack is full I can not reach the side pockets for the bottles, I find that actually forces me to stop, off-load my pack every once in a while and take a break.

Perhaps there are better pack designs that make them more accessible. I have had good luck and really like the Osprey packs, so I will pick their pack with less accessible pockets, versus another brand that does. I have been using an Atmos 35 which is fairly small as packs go in order to force me to pack light. However, I recently picked up one of the Atmos 65s for longer trips and cold weather where I need room for larger bag and more layered clothing.

For reference.. here's my pack with waterbottles on it (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebluedog/2866483030/in/set-72157607348985715/).

Also to note, when it comes to water bladders, I've found brand makes all the difference. Camelback is hands down the best in my experience. As thanksful I am for the folks that organized all the goodie bags for Seek the Peak, the waterbladder that came in the pack that they gave us leaks like crazy. I believe this was a Coleman brand, but I'm not 100% sure.

Hope that helps and let us know how your research project goes!

UncleFester
12-17-2008, 01:06 PM
I use freezer dryed water tablets...pop one in your mouth and you're good for hours. They come in single cup and pint size.

Seriously, Camelback is the way to go IMHO

MeridenFF
12-17-2008, 02:15 PM
I can see the pro and cons for both bottles and bladders. While using a bladder I tend to drink more often taking smaller sips which I feel is better for you. When I drink from a water bottle I tend to take out the bottle less often and when I do I am drinking larger amounts of water at one time. For these reasons I like to carry both. I use the bladder while actually hiking to keep me continually hydrated and when I stop to take a break I will pull out my bottle esp if I am eating a meal (protein bar) at the time. Good luck with your project.

MelNino
12-17-2008, 03:12 PM
I'm terrible about carrying too much water, ha. (Old habit, while hiking some trails in highschool, my friends always forgot their water, so I got used to bring "extra")

For long hikes, I have my Camelback and 2 water bottles. The Camelback I use while walking, and when we rest, use the water bottles....they are in my side pockets secured with carabiners. (I am also a huge sucker for collecting water bottle and carabiners....sigh...)


LOL, I was just remembering my first hike of KWMN, my buddy and I carried way too much water....forgetting wecould refill at the top.

Steve M
12-17-2008, 07:29 PM
Seriously, I use a Camelback bladder in my backpack and I love it. When I'm hiking I don't like to be reaching around trying to find my water. It's always there at the end of the hose so I find myself drinking more than I used to with a bottle. My CB is in an insulated case which I like because it keeps the bladder safe from puncture and keeps my water cold longer.

BlueDog
12-17-2008, 07:38 PM
While we are on the subject... question of the day it seems...

Aluminum bottle or Nalgene Bottle?

Personally I have two of the large Nalgene ones. Thought about converting to the metal ones but not really sure its worth it. Yeah, I know about the BPA, and all mine are newer BPA-Free bottles.

Opinons?

ColdWeatherClimber
12-17-2008, 08:35 PM
Any bottle that is new and BPA free. I have a few older nalgene bottles I am tossing. If I went for metal, I'd go stainless steel, not aluminum. I already have enough memory problems without aluminum in my system :D

Charlie
12-17-2008, 08:48 PM
I use a Camel back bladder in my backpack and also carry 3 or more bottles of water . i sweat a lot so i need to drink a lot
last year at STP i had my bladder ,about another gal of sport drink .i made it to the bottom of loins head and then back down ,when i got to my car i had nothing left :eek:

my be i can use some of those freezer dried water tablets :D:D

BlueDog
12-17-2008, 09:20 PM
Any bottle that is new and BPA free. I have a few older nalgene bottles I am tossing. If I went for metal, I'd go stainless steel, not aluminum. I already have enough memory problems without aluminum in my system :D

Stainless.. yeah, that's what I meant. :) Maybe I HAVE been drinking aluminum!

Patrad Fischroy
12-18-2008, 08:59 AM
I like having both as well. One thing I like to do is freeze 3/4 of a bottle then fill it with water before I head out. This has two advantages, one the water stays cold, and two it makes me meter ot my water intake. The bladder is just easier to use although I agree that it takes more effort both before and after the hike to maintain it. One thing that could be looked at is the shape of the bottles to maximize their usefulness and to help on accessability. The use of clips and/or straps or fannypacks to carry the bottles could also be looked at.

mtruman
12-18-2008, 10:04 AM
While we are on the subject... question of the day it seems...

Aluminum bottle or Nalgene Bottle?

Personally I have two of the large Nalgene ones. Thought about converting to the metal ones but not really sure its worth it. Yeah, I know about the BPA, and all mine are newer BPA-Free bottles.

Opinons?

We use just the large Nalgenes. Still need to replace them with new BPA free ones. I've been thinking about getting a couple or aluminum ones as well to give them a shot. EMS has 1L aluminum on sale for $14 right now which is really cheap.

mtruman
12-18-2008, 10:07 AM
Stainless.. yeah, that's what I meant. :) Maybe I HAVE been drinking aluminum!

Hmmm. I think most of the aluminum bottles have some sort of coated interiors. The ones I mentioned do anyway: http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442598754&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302891295. I don't need any more memory loss either. Anyone know anything more about aluminum bottles in this respect?

Brad
12-18-2008, 12:24 PM
Anyone know anything more about aluminum bottles in this respect?
I don't remember what it was.

Steve M
12-18-2008, 07:59 PM
I don't remember what it was.

Using those aluminum bottles I see.

Bill O
12-18-2008, 08:49 PM
Do people still care about PBA?

Brad
12-18-2008, 09:53 PM
Do people still care about PBA?
Nope - I have not watched professional bowling for a long time.

fifteendays
12-19-2008, 12:09 AM
While I don't hike as much as I did before kids came into the picture (both will be hiking regularly soon...), my wife and I keep our Camelbak bladders in the freezer so that no gunk grows inside. Not a lot of upkeep needed that way. We both have the insulated tubing, so freezing when XC skiing or winter hiking is never an issue.

I recently switched from the old Nalgene bottles to SIGG stainless bottles, which has been fine until I dropped a full metal bottle in my garage yesterday. Huge dent. Sure, it's only cosmetic, but since I spent like $25 at EMS on the damn thing, I'm a little bummed. My trusty old Nalgene would have bounced.

Anyway, when I hike, I use the bladder and supplement with a water bottle if it's a long hike. After the hike, I usually supplement further with a Tuckerman Pale Ale.

Scot
MWO Staff

ColdWeatherClimber
12-19-2008, 12:48 AM
Always loved SIGG bottles for fuel. Now I have a small stainless SIGG for white wine to take a long as a treat for dinner, or a summit celebration etc. My buddy has one too. I also noticed that Nalgene and as well, Camelback are offering BPA free plastic units now, so you might have a look at those.

MelNino
12-19-2008, 07:36 AM
Where I work we were "going green," so they handed out cheaply made plastic bottle, some of which were already leaking...lol. Mine chipped neat the mouth...doesn't really close great now.

I do have a Sigg and two mini sigg knock offs.....no probs yet:D

ColdWeatherClimber
12-19-2008, 09:00 AM
SIGGs are great Mel :)

Bill O
12-19-2008, 09:26 AM
I recently switched from the old Nalgene bottles to SIGG stainless bottles, which has been fine until I dropped a full metal bottle in my garage yesterday. Huge dent. Sure, it's only cosmetic, but since I spent like $25 at EMS on the damn thing, I'm a little bummed. My trusty old Nalgene would have bounced.


Those are battle scars. I bought a Sigg in Switzerland before they hit it big over here and traveled around the world with it. Lots of dents and chips. I think stalagmites were growing on the inside by the time I trashed it. I remember running to catch the train to New York one day and it fell out of my bag and rolled onto the tracks. I was able to make a daring rescue the next day.

In college we dropped a Nalgene four floors (empty) onto a linoleum floor. It bounced and didn't break. Then we filled it up with water and dropped it four feet....broke instantly.

Patrad Fischroy
12-19-2008, 12:10 PM
My only problem with a Sigg bottle was the time I left it out in the garage during the winter with a full load of water inside.

Have you ever seen aluminum split?
:-(

That is a little more than a battle scar...

Bill O
12-19-2008, 12:16 PM
Have you ever seen aluminum split?
:-(

That is a little more than a battle scar...

Sounds like a ski lift tower.

Patrad Fischroy
12-19-2008, 12:26 PM
Was that what happened at Whistler? I haven't been following that too much