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Charlie
01-25-2009, 02:23 PM
what way do you save your pictures and back them up

M_Six
01-25-2009, 02:30 PM
Maxtor One-Touch USB external drive. (Not a poll option.)

But this reminds me, I haven't backed them up in awhile. :o Excuse me....

KD Talbot
01-25-2009, 03:53 PM
I also back up to an external hard drive. This is done once a week automatically through a program called Super-Duper. I can also do it manually. Problem is in the event of a disaster like a fire or flood, the hard drive is toast, too. I'm thinking of backing up to an off-site company.

KDT

mtruman
01-25-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm very paranoid about losing my digital photos so I always keep copies in several locations. Here's the workflow:

Download from camera onto PC #1 (my work laptop). Backup from laptop to USB hard drive used for transfer. Also have another USB hard drive that does a regular backup of the laptop. From the transfer USB drive load onto my home desktop machine. Do all post-processing here and then upload selected set to Picasa Web Albums. Desktop PC gets backed up to another USB hard drive. So that makes 5 saved copies in all. This has actually saved my butt on several occasions when files have gotten deleted or corrupted on one of the locations. This is of course major overkill, but since each of the PCs is being backed up for other reasons anyway and disk is cheap I think the extra copies are worth it.

I've also got a battery powered media backup device (Photo Safe) that I use to back up the card when I'm on vacation or somewhere that I don't have access to a PC for more than a day. I did a review of this a while back here: http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/review-backup-your-photos-with-the-photo-safe-20070910/

Bill O
01-25-2009, 06:27 PM
External hard drive and DVDs or CDs.

I always have at least two copies. Usually on my computer hard drive and an external drive.

Brad
01-25-2009, 06:42 PM
This is a really good question. And like Mark, I do overkill. But, I do not want to lose any files - pictures and otherwise.

After taking pictures I transfer all the files to the hard disk in my laptop.

ALL files saved or changed on the laptop are automatically copied to a Network Access Storage (NAS) unit sitting on my home network. It is not connected to a computer - it plugs directly into the network itself. If I am not on the network, then they are queued till I connect next time. As soon as I am on the home network, the files get sent to the NAS. For my regular files I save up to 3 copies. For picture files I save one copy because once saved, they do not change. The NAS is running a feature called RAID5. The unit has four 250GB drives in it (the new version uses four 500GB drives). If there is a problem with a drive, pull it out, replace it and all the data is rebuilt off the RAID data. This is a standard feature for business oriented servers. It has already saved my bacon once.

A simple way of copying picture files to a network disk or even USB drive is to use the following command in a .bat file and set a schedule to run it every night at 2AM.

cd \PictureDirectory
xcopy *.* x:\pictures\*.* /s /y /m

The /m says just copy the files that have been modified (new or changed).

The above NAS answer is for my home in Maine. I have a second NAS in my NC home. When I connect to that home network all files that it has not seen before get copied to it. So, I end up with a NAS copy on 2 different units.

In addition, I have been using the Carbonite.com service. I have specified that all my data files get sent to their data center on the Internet. This works for built in disk drives. It does not support USB drives or network attached drives. The biggest drawback is, if you delete a file the service will delete it after xx days. So, if you delete off your disk to save space, the backup copy is gone. This is not an effective archive service. It works well for backing up.

This past week I purchased a 500GB USB drive that is powered off the laptop. I have made a master copy of all my picture files there - also. This way I will have a complete version with me. On the laptop I only have the past year's worth of picture files due to space limitations. I only have 280GB of disk in this laptop - why should I have a problem? So, my process will be augmented with a copy of all modified files going to the USB drive each night no matter where I am.

From all of the above there is probably an approach for someone. Doing what I do is way overkill. I may discontinue the Carbonite service now that I have seen what it does and does not do.

Charlie is probably totally confused.

Charlie
01-25-2009, 08:58 PM
brad can you put that in English

thanks for all the ideas

brad i should have known your backup would be like something NASA uses :eek:

can you set me up with one :D HAHA

Patrad Fischroy
01-25-2009, 09:45 PM
So Brads reply should have read "All of the Above(and more to boot)"

You might want to add that to your poll.

Seriously, I use the external hard drive as well as CD/DVD route. It makes for an easy to use (the externals) as well as an archival copy(the CD/DVD's)

h2oeco
01-25-2009, 09:59 PM
Just to confuse things further...

My internal hard drive is actually a RAID array (mirrored - it behaves like one drive, but everything is actually on two separate drives), I backup everything to an external eSATA drive, I back everything up to an external eSATA RAID array, and specifically backup my Aperture library (Apple photo managment software) to yet another dedicated external drive...

:-)

Ed

Brad
01-26-2009, 06:09 AM
I knew I liked Ed for some reason. My kind of guy.

Brad
01-26-2009, 06:15 AM
If I were looking for a NAS I would purchase the Buffalo 2TB Terastation. This is what I have in NC and I have the older 1TB Terastation in Maine. Some models support "media" features and I have not figured out why I would need them.

I run the stereo system for music off an Audiotron system which pulls the MP3 files off the NAS. All controls and managing what is being played is done off a browser talking to the Audiotron.

2TB Terastation
http://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-HS-DH2-0TGL-R5-Terastation-Multimedia/dp/B000MTRWZ0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1232968240&sr=8-2

Since the Terastation also supports FTP, I can get at any file in the house from outside the house- in NC, a hotel, at work, or in the car. I have been known to back up all my son in law's PhD files from NC to Maine through FTP just to make sure he does not lose something.

forestgnome
01-28-2009, 04:43 AM
I back up all my "keepers" on CD. I make two copies of every CD. One goes into a file box for future use, the other copy goes into a safe deposit box at my bank.

I recently went with Carbonite for a year's subscription just in case something bad happens before the copies are made. I don't delete images from the card until they are copied, so I guess it's overkill...or paranoia :eek:

mtruman
01-28-2009, 09:00 AM
It sounds like Brad, Ed and I all have the same over the top approach. Belt and suspenders just won't quite do it. We need to superglue our pants on besides... :rolleyes:

I think Patrick's approach to off-site storage (particularly the safe deposit) is a really good idea too. The online backup method should accomplish this as well.

Brad
01-28-2009, 12:15 PM
I back up all my "keepers" on CD. I make two copies of every CD. One goes into a file box for future use, the other copy goes into a safe deposit box at my bank.

I recently went with Carbonite for a year's subscription just in case something bad happens before the copies are made. I don't delete images from the card until they are copied, so I guess it's overkill...or paranoia :eek:
There is a fine point to your words that could be key for folks to understand. One can copy files from a media card to your computer or move them. The move function does the copy and then deletes the files from the media card for you.

I have had on one occasion where I did the move - and the process stopped - files did not make it to the computer - and files were deleted off the media card. All gone. I was able to recover most of the files with some scary low level recovery software.

My recommendation is to copy the files to the computer. Once they are there - then do the delete yourself off the media card.

UncleFester
01-28-2009, 04:44 PM
External HD

Patrad Fischroy
01-29-2009, 09:57 AM
I have had on one occasion where I did the move - and the process stopped - files did not make it to the computer - and files were deleted off the media card. All gone. I was able to recover most of the files with some scary low level recovery software.

My recommendation is to copy the files to the computer. Once they are there - then do the delete yourself off the media card.

Just another slight caveat to this. Most recommend using the camera to delete the pictures if you want to leave some on the card after downloading. If you are just emptying the card, I find it best to use the camera to format the card.

Brad
01-29-2009, 11:28 AM
Just another slight caveat to this. Most recommend using the camera to delete the pictures if you want to leave some on the card after downloading. If you are just emptying the card, I find it best to use the camera to format the card.
Hmmm, why do you do it this way? The card has a high level directory on it. When the card is plugged into the computer it looks like a disk drive. Select the high level directory and say delete - done.

Patrad Fischroy
01-29-2009, 01:15 PM
I have to admit, I don't know the technical answer. I have read this advice many times though on a number of photography sites such as:

http://photo.net/digital-camera-shopping-forum/00PmTd

Steve M
01-29-2009, 01:16 PM
I have a server on my network with two 120 gig drives "RAIDed" together which I store my pics on, as well as my other three computers have the same pics on them, and on top of that I have them saved to DVD.

Brad
01-29-2009, 02:14 PM
I have a server on my network with two 120 gig drives "RAIDed" together which I store my pics on, as well as my other three computers have the same pics on them, and on top of that I have them saved to DVD.
But are any off site? If there is a fire, will you lose them all?

Patrad,

I agree that the format operation should be done in the camera. Then there is no concern whether the correct file organization structure is being used. The idea of formatting in the camera or drive probably goes back to floppy disk and original CD days when physical heads might be aligned differently. There are no heads involved with digital camera memory cards today, so the advice probably does not apply at all. But, I still do the formatting in the camera if I have to do it.

As for formatting each time you want to delete files, someone has a bug in their software! If the media card is in a reader plugged directly into the computer (which is what I do) a delete of the high level directory will remove all subdirectories and files. If it doesn't, get a new reader from a different manufacturer.

If you keep the media card in the camera and plug the camera into the computer, there are a couple of levels of complexity added here. Either the camera manufacturer's software on the computer is faulty or the firmware in the camera has a bug. I would bet a Dunkin Donut that the card could be put directly in the computer with a reader and the files will be deleted fine. The card is probably not the problem.

In my opinion - mileage will vary - and this is all valued at the price of one Dunkin Donut.

Patrad Fischroy
01-29-2009, 03:13 PM
It may well be a old wives tale, it also may have to do with Fat-32 vs NTFS

Brad
01-29-2009, 03:50 PM
It may well be a old wives tale, it also may have to do with Fat-32 vs NTFS
That is why I say, if you have to format - do it in the camera.

Over time I have used 8-10 different media cards.The set of 3 I am using now have never been formatted once I started using them well over a year ago.

Charlie
01-29-2009, 07:58 PM
I have had on one occasion where I did the move - and the process stopped - files did not make it to the computer - and files were deleted off the media card. All gone. I was able to recover most of the files with some scary low level recovery software.

My recommendation is to copy the files to the computer. Once they are there - then do the delete yourself off the media card.

this is how i move pictures around ,i make sure that they made it before i delete them

thanks for all the good ideas

mtruman
01-29-2009, 10:23 PM
My recommendation is to copy the files to the computer. Once they are there - then do the delete yourself off the media card.

I'm disappointed Brad. You're just using the suspenders at this point and have forgotten the belt, let alone the superglue. I copy them from the card to the hard drive first but I don't delete them from the card until I've copied them to a second drive. I'm still too paranoid to just delete them from the card when there is only one other copy because I could still screw it up somehow. BTW - I agree with using the PC to do the delete from the card. No difference in deleting using the PC vs. the camera.

Brad
01-30-2009, 08:19 AM
One of the dangers of the digital media stuff is opening an original file - changing it on the screen - then saving it on top of the original. You can never go back to the original. That is one of the beauties of taking pictures in RAW format. Then the save step on the PC will be to a format like JPG. The original is not touched. Plus, in RAW format you have a lot more control over the editing.

I know the backup to the network drive starts as soon as the files are copied to the computer. I could stop and have a very very small cup of coffee before doing the delete from the card. That way the files would be done copying to the network drive.

Steve M
01-30-2009, 09:57 AM
But are any off site? If there is a fire, will you lose them all?

No, they are not off site and you are right, if I had a fire I would lose everything. Got any recommendations to good off-site storage? Maybe just let a friend hold the DVD's would be the answer.


I have always copied the images to my hard drive then deleted them from the camera and never had to format the card after the first time.

Brad
01-30-2009, 06:31 PM
I have done the off site storage thing with my son. When I would go over to his house I would take the next set that needed to go there. Do a swap deal with a friend - keep their off site disks and have him do the same for you.

The other alternative is that MWO would gladly store your off site disks if you become an "Everest Club" member of the Observatory.

Charlie
01-31-2009, 10:45 AM
how secure is the off site places for pictures ,have they ever crashed and every one lost the pictures :eek:

Brad
01-31-2009, 06:47 PM
Sites like Fotki and Shutterbug, etc. state they are not a backup or archive service. It is possible to lose files from there. We have been on Fotki for 6 or 7 years and have not lost a file. However, a site which has been around a while to mature, like Carbonite, which is in the business to provide a backup or an archive service, they should not lose files. They would go out of business if they did.

I differentiate between a backup and an archive service. Carbonite is a backup service in my mind. They have a copy of your files (encrypted). However, if you delete a file they delete it also. An archive service should not do deletes unless you specifically tell them to do it.

Steve M
02-02-2009, 12:38 PM
I have done the off site storage thing with my son. When I would go over to his house I would take the next set that needed to go there. Do a swap deal with a friend - keep their off site disks and have him do the same for you.

The other alternative is that MWO would gladly store your off site disks if you become an "Everest Club" member of the Observatory.

Brad, I couldn't...hehe...find the..hehe..Everest Club...on the...hehe...MWO membership page.

Brad
02-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Brad, I couldn't...hehe...find the..hehe..Everest Club...on the...hehe...MWO membership page.
Must be too high a membership price to show up on your computer. ;)

Charlie
02-02-2009, 04:58 PM
Brad, I couldn't...hehe...find the..hehe..Everest Club...on the...hehe...MWO membership page.


Must be too high a membership price to show up on your computer. ;)

hehe....hehe...hehe steve it looks like he got you on this one :D

Steve M
02-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Must be too high a membership price to show up on your computer. ;)

I guess I will have to call for a quote.:eek:

UncleFester
02-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Know what I've been wondering about lately, I watch a lot of CSI, and they always take pictures of the crime scene.

Now I'm assuming those slr's are digital not film right, so lets say they go back to the office and the card fails. Do they lose all the crime scene evidence?

Or do they take it on real film to be extra sure?

Brad
02-03-2009, 01:54 PM
Know what I've been wondering about lately, I watch a lot of CSI, and they always take pictures of the crime scene.

Now I'm assuming those slr's are digital not film right, so lets say they go back to the office and the card fails. Do they lose all the crime scene evidence?

Or do they take it on real film to be extra sure?
Remember in the OJ trial (#1) where the DA said there were some key crime scene pictures they "lost" on the media card? That tells me they were using digital and I would have to believe that is the norm now.

When Greta announced this as the situation she did not push back on it. So, I sent her an e-mail explaining one can recover lost files with simple utility programs. She just replied with a thanks for the information.