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ValdezAK_330_inches
10-04-2009, 07:02 PM
Hello to readers, Mount Washington employees etc...

I am trying to find a dependable hand held wind meter? I saw the Davis WindScribe which is supposed to be accurate up to 150 mph. Has anyone tested this one yet? It costs between 90 to 115 bucks depending on the vendor. It uses ultrasonic technology supposedly.

http://www.weathershack.com/davis-instruments/windscribe.html

Knapper
10-05-2009, 03:04 PM
I can't review the instrument you are asking about. I think it came out within the last few months or something as I haven't seen it published in any weather magazines I get nor can I find anything online where someone reviewed it. But I can suggest one of the Kestrel products. I have used the 1000, 3000, and 4000 series of these. The 1000 was in college, the 3000 was the only official back up handheld wind instrument when I worked for the FAA and I was impressed with it enough to buy the 4000 for myself. The 1000 is about the same price as the "sonic" device you are looking at but the higher you go in the series the more functions they have. The 4500 even does wind direction. I have used the 4000 when I got stuck in a typhoon in NZ a few years ago and I measured winds above 100 mph which I stored and graphed when I got home. They are good for up to 130 mph I believe. But, I dont recommend using them in the freezing fog for too long as the rime builds on the props and can break them which has happened to our 3000 on the summit a few times. But if you use it quickly, it works fine. But this can be said on sonic technology as well. We have full size sonic anemometers on the summit and even when they are heated, if they form just a thin coating of rime or glaze, they become inaccurate. But I would determine where you are going to use these and then decide what fits for you. If you are using it for lower elevation hiking, any would work, just find a price point that works. More info on Kestrels devices can be found here: http://www.nkhome.com/

Gorque
10-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Hello to readers, Mount Washington employees etc...

I am trying to find a dependable hand held wind meter? I saw the Davis WindScribe which is supposed to be accurate up to 150 mph. Has anyone tested this one yet? It costs between 90 to 115 bucks depending on the vendor. It uses ultrasonic technology supposedly.

http://www.weathershack.com/davis-instruments/windscribe.htmlAll due respect, but with winds at those speeds, wouldn't you risk loss of limb in trying to old onto one of those devices? :eek:

Knapper
10-05-2009, 08:57 PM
All due respect, but with winds at those speeds, wouldn't you risk loss of limb in trying to old onto one of those devices? :eek:

The risk of limbs is dependant on where you are. Facing the winds while at the ocean or above treeline, probably not but if in land on shore during a hurricane with debree, probably. I have been outside de-icing on the summit of Mt Washington in 158 mph and other times over 100 mph and I still have all my limbs. Wind alone doesn't usually take limbs, its outside forces acting with the wind. The bigger questions are, would you be able to stand or keep your arm perpendicular in those winds while holding the instrument or why are you in a situation where you need to measure those winds for non-scientific purposes.

Gorque
10-06-2009, 08:51 AM
The risk of limbs is dependant on where you are. Facing the winds while at the ocean or above treeline, probably not but if in land on shore during a hurricane with debree, probably. I have been outside de-icing on the summit of Mt Washington in 158 mph and other times over 100 mph and I still have all my limbs. Wind alone doesn't usually take limbs, its outside forces acting with the wind. The bigger questions are, would you be able to stand or keep your arm perpendicular in those winds while holding the instrument or why are you in a situation where you need to measure those winds for non-scientific purposes.Good informative answer. I like your questions even better.

Did the de-icing occur in steady 158 m.p.h. winds or in gusting of up to that speed and more importanly, were you hanging or lashed onto something to prevent you from flying away into the Great Gulf?

Knapper
10-06-2009, 03:52 PM
Did the de-icing occur in steady 158 m.p.h. winds or in gusting of up to that speed and more importanly, were you hanging or lashed onto something to prevent you from flying away into the Great Gulf?

Wind speeds were sustained over 135 mph gusting to over 150 mph for the 15 minutes I was doing the observation. As to the second question, no we do leash in at any moment up there, that is how limbs or strangulation occur. IN fact, state park strug a rope from the corner of the SHerman Adams building to Yankee and the climbing rope severed overnight and became two 100+ ft whips that I had to also avoid in addition to the high winds and blowing ice when getting the precipitation can between the two buildings. When winds are like that, you go out only when you need/want to, you move slow, face into the wind at all times, and know your outs (lee sides of buildings). When I was de-icing, I remained as much as I could in a the lee of the upper parapet while climbing as high up the ladder as possible and then swinging our de-icer (Crowbar). Plus it was wind from the west-northwest, our more common wind direction, so the Alpine Garden, not the Great Gulf is the "danger". But it should be said that humans, if standing on the cone, should never be blown into the surrounding gulfs and ravines due to friction and "shadows" formed by rocks, buildings and the summits shape. Thats not the same as if they were climbing, lost their footing and slid into them. I mean they cannot be picked up and flung like a paper ball. That is why usually if you see a video on youtube where the "hiked in 100mph winds" subject line is used it is usually from Lions Head/Tux trail where you are in the mountains shadow for about 90% of the time and receive far lower velocities. The summit may measure 100mph but if you were to use those handhelds (as I have mentioned above) you will see winds are usually 75 mph or less when in the lee of the mountain. Having hiked multiple times in 100 mph, there are stances and manerisims you pick up on to actually know if they are in 100 mph winds are not. And about blowing off the summit, usually if an object has any weight to it (hat, goggles, headlamp, etc) it looks as though it blew off the summit cone but we always check the Lee of the tower, the Sherman Adams building or parking lot gully and usually find our "lost" objects there.

ValdezAK_330_inches
10-06-2009, 04:11 PM
Thanks for your reply Ryan... We get channeled winds during the winter here that gust over 70 mph easily. I was going to use it up at Thompson Pass occasionally to compare with the sonic anemometer that is up there which is a Young 85000 Ultrasonic (http://www.dot.state.ak.us/iways/roadweather/forms/MeasuredVariables.html?areaId=3&perspectiveId=1&siteId=26) and when we have wind events over 100 mph there there is usually (not always) problems with the sonic due to riming. I am thinking that if the sonic hand held gets rimed then I could just bring it into my truck to warm up and then bring it back out....also to warm me up after experiencing the windchills below -50F... That page that explains the Kestrels says that repeated use in speeds over 60 will wear out the impeller... have you experienced that a lot? How accurate is your Kestral 4000 at 100 mph when compared with the Mt. Washington sensor?

Also on another note, do you have any information on any new sonic anemometers whose heaters are able to perform decently between -20 and -50 F?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ftGkDnOowrk/SRjRyIxJ9RI/AAAAAAAACjA/4EWroX5Xd-Y/s1600-h/11_8_08_ValdezSnow3.JPG

Brad
10-06-2009, 04:24 PM
As to the second question, no we do leash in at any moment up there, that is how limbs or strangulation occur.
Did you miss a "not" word in this sentence? I thought you did not leash in at all.

Knapper
10-06-2009, 08:38 PM
Did you miss a "not" word in this sentence? I thought you did not leash in at all.

You're correct, I did forget to use "not". We don't leash in. Nice catch.

Gorque
10-07-2009, 07:32 AM
Thanks again Ryan, for your detailed commentary. :)

Patrad Fischroy
10-07-2009, 11:02 AM
Now Ryan, I think you are disputing some well known accounts from Lee Vincent's authoritative tome "Ten Years on the Rockpile" where I recall that he spoke of being blown off the mountain several times. Besides reality is not what we are looking for here;)

VellAnews
12-23-2009, 08:43 PM
Looks like Airlaw question ? any clues ?

The restriction of hand-held mic’s is for

a. passenger aircraft only
b. private aircraft
c. helicopters

Maintamn