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treant985
04-02-2007, 01:38 PM
What are the chances for measurable snow on the summit in the coming week? The forecasts for the NC mountains are showing an extreme dip in temps starting around Thursday (lows in the mid teens on Saturday), with chances of snow....so I figured MWO would be expecting something more than a trace or half inch.

Bill O
04-02-2007, 07:04 PM
Snow is definitely in the forecast. Check out the latest forecast here. (http://www.erh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapClick.php?site=GYX&llon=-71.867083&rlon=-70.909583&tlat=44.890417&blat=43.935417&smap=1&mp=1&map.x=152&map.y=157)

The summit averages 41" in April with a record of 111". Winter could make a big time return.

Bill O
04-03-2007, 08:08 AM
Winter storm watch is now up for Mount Washington and the rest of northern New Hampshire.

AlpineHikerFan71
04-03-2007, 10:31 AM
Winter storm watch is now up for Mount Washington and the rest of northern New Hampshire.
Bill,
Sorry I shouldve looked here first, you can delete that other thread I just posted my bad

davidhowland14
04-03-2007, 01:49 PM
Winter storm watch is now up for Mount Washington and the rest of northern New Hampshire.

6-12" is what I saw.

Bill O
04-03-2007, 01:59 PM
6-12" is what I saw.

We should know more when the winter storm warnings go. Those forecasts are generally for the mountain valleys, not the summits.

I remember a big mid-April snowstorm in 1997, and it wasn't just confined to the mountains.

parnelli
04-04-2007, 07:28 AM
We should know more when the winter storm warnings go. Those forecasts are generally for the mountain valleys, not the summits.

I remember a big mid-April snowstorm in 1997, and it wasn't just confined to the mountains.
:eek:

I think that snowstrom took place about April 15 -16 . It made for great skiing on Cannon and Loon.

Bill O
04-04-2007, 01:40 PM
Looks like 10-20" for Mount Washington area. Can't wait to see what the mountain looks like after this storm.

It should be interesting to see how Tuck's recovers from this snow. It seems like once the Little Headwall opens up in the spring it never fills back in, but who knows what 20" of new snow will do. The Sherburne will certainly benefit.

Bill O
04-05-2007, 07:04 PM
5.6" for the summit on the 4th. Another 2.0" as of 8am today and its been snowing continuously since then.

The lower elevations faired very well with the prescribed 10-20" as of this morning.

Brad
04-05-2007, 08:18 PM
We got about 10 inches here in Maine. Really looked nice this morning. The plumber put a bigger nozzle in the furnace that heats the driveway - and it worked very well. First thing in the morning I was able to drive up the steep driveway and go for coffee. Very nice. It is completely clear and clean. Snow that came throughout the day melted on contact.

Bill O
04-05-2007, 08:31 PM
Another 2.9" on the summit between 2pm and 8pm. The 8am to 2pm period didn't get coded so we'll have to wait until the morning update to get the full day.

alora7
04-06-2007, 06:21 AM
Another 2.9" on the summit between 2pm and 8pm. The 8am to 2pm period didn't get coded so we'll have to wait until the morning update to get the full day.

From the web cam views this morning, looks like it is still snowing! The ravines look amply coated...

Charlie
04-06-2007, 02:02 PM
We got about 10 inches here in Maine. Really looked nice this morning. The plumber put a bigger nozzle in the furnace that heats the driveway - and it worked very well. First thing in the morning I was able to drive up the steep driveway and go for coffee. Very nice. It is completely clear and clean. Snow that came throughout the day melted on contact.


driveway looked nice and clear at 2:00 today when you got propane

is your driveway concrete and what did you or they put under it to keep the heat from going down .

Bill O
04-06-2007, 08:11 PM
is your driveway concrete and what did you or they put under it to keep the heat from going down .

Come on, heat doesn't go down...it goes up! It may be elementary, but its true. I suppose you lose a little heat to conduction in the down direction, but it just adds to the thermal mass and it eventually works its way to the surface.

Charlie
04-06-2007, 08:45 PM
in some of the jobs i put in floor heat in they do put a thin foil insulation before the slab was put in .
and some jobs had stone .

Bill O
04-06-2007, 09:09 PM
in some of the jobs i put in floor heat in they do put a thin foil insulation before the slab was put in .
and some jobs had stone .

Of course, my parent's house has radiant floor heating and in the basement there is foil insulation between the beams. Not only does it insulate, but the shiny coating reflects all the radiant heat back up.

Back to snowfall...looks like Mount Washington picked up more snow all day. Still recording -sn at 9pm. October aside this could be the biggest storm of the season.

The mountain had a full winter coating in all the cams today, but I never got a clear look on the Tux zoom. That will be the real indicator.

Brad
04-08-2007, 11:23 AM
driveway looked nice and clear at 2:00 today when you got propane

is your driveway concrete and what did you or they put under it to keep the heat from going down .
The driveway is asphalt - but my wife did not want the black color. So, she had them put cement dust on it. NEVER do this. The surface ends up too slick for driveway sealer to stick.

For a heated driveway one can do asphalt or cement. With asphalt the pipes are under the asphalt. With cement the pipes are in the cement. I was concerned about frost heaves and the trouble fixing things if we went cement. It turns out we will pull up a small section of asphalt to move the pipes a bit and relay a new surface.

With the asphalt system they cut down a bit - put in a insulating foil layer to radiate the heat up and reduce the heat loss from the ground which could be frozen underneath - then a 1 1/2" layer of stone dust - the PEX tubing held on a wire mesh - then covered over with more stone dust - then the asphalt. There is a sensor in the driveway that measured the temperature of the slab as well as humidity. Temperature outside goes down, humidity goes up and the system brings the slab temperature up to 45 degrees. There is quite a bit of tuning that has to be done - but, that is a good excuse for needing to go to Maine for a few days.

Oh, the propane truck - - - we were on generator power for 9 hours due to power lines being down. During the power outage I was out pressure washing the driveway to get up sealer that was coming off.

Charlie
04-08-2007, 08:50 PM
thanks for the info i never heard of it being put in black top.
do you have it on all the time and does it use a lot of propane.

Bill O
04-08-2007, 08:57 PM
thanks for the info i never heard of it being put in black top.
do you have it on all the time and does it use a lot of propane.

I think he said it uses a temperature and humidity sensor. I'm guessing it goes on when the temp falls below freezing and the humidity approaches 100%.

Brad
04-08-2007, 09:21 PM
The system is designed to be "on" all the time and manage the melting needs. when it does not need to be melting it is in IDLE mode. I have that set for 31 degrees. The boiler does not come on often to keep the slab at 31F. the heated water just circulates through the PEX under the driveway slab. If the water temperature goes down too much the boiler will kick in and a variable speed pump will add hot water to the system.

When the system sees lower temperatures and higher humidity, then it "sees" water and goes into MELT mode which drives the temperature of the slab up to a melt temperature which I have set around 45F. We have tried several numbers. With the more powerful boiler the slab ramps up to 60 degrees and then settles down to the melt temperature. The other day our handyman and I were standing by the garage as it was snowing hard. Water was running down the driveway into the drains - a steady flow from snow melting on contact.

The above is how the system was designed and I figure uses about $70 a big snow storm to clear the driveway - cost of oil and electricity. In our case the driveway is so steep and no place to put snow - so, plowing is not an option. It would have to be snowblowed by hand.

So, I turn the system off when we are not there. When I see a forecast of snow I will go through the Internet and turn the system on. Using the web camera I can watch when it is done and turn it back off again. Or If there is snow on the driveway and we are about to head north for a visit, I will check the camera to see how much is there - then will pick a warmer day to turn the system on. Then it will not have to work as hard. So, we pick our days when we run it.

When we are there for vacation in the winter we have the system running in automatic mode all the time. A slight dew in the morning freezing and we would not get up the driveway. With the system I never have to worry about getting in or out.

Steve M
04-09-2007, 06:45 PM
Well Brad, thats really cool stuff. Something that was practically unheard of just 20-30 years ago. In Florida we have to use cooling pipes under the lawn to get the snow to stick and stay for awhile.:p ......just dreaming!

Charlie
04-09-2007, 07:27 PM
thanks brad very nice setup

the controller that runs the system was it home made or is this something that is on the market ?

did you do this system or did you hire some one to do it and design it.

i never heard of this and it is very interesting ,thanks for the info .

Bill O
04-09-2007, 07:33 PM
Well Brad, thats really cool stuff. Something that was practically unheard of just 20-30 years ago. In Florida we have to use cooling pipes under the lawn to get the snow to stick and stay for awhile.:p ......just dreaming!

In Aspen or Vail, Colorado heated driveways are fairly common. I'm guessing they have been around for much longer than 30 years. That's only 1977, we did have heat back then, and people have been running hot water through pipes for hundreds of years.

In Japan they have heated streets. The Swiss are fairly fond of technology, I can imagine them doing great things with heat and piping.

Steve M
04-09-2007, 08:25 PM
Well, I learned something new then. Brad, what does it cost for a unit like the one you have in your driveway?

Brad
04-10-2007, 05:55 AM
thanks brad very nice setup

the controller that runs the system was it home made or is this something that is on the market ?

did you do this system or did you hire some one to do it and design it.

I never heard of this and it is very interesting ,thanks for the info .
The controller is from Tekmar - specifically for snow melt applications.
http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/prod/664.shtml

About 7 years ago we decided we needed to pave our driveway (very steep and it was washing out each year). But, because of the slope any moisture would make it unusable in the winter. So, I worked with the local plumbing supply company - we did research - learned about the Tekmar controls - and had a Portland, Maine plumbing engineer design and size the system. The local company installed it. Because of the slope we have to bleed air out of the system (it goes uphill of course) in the fall. We have a mixture of water and antifreeze in the system.

Patrad Fischroy
04-10-2007, 08:16 AM
Yes , here in Colorado these sorts of systems have been around for a bit, although mostly as has been noted in the upscale parts. They have been a sort of proving ground for the emerging technology. For the most part the major inovations have been in the sensors and the controllers. And at that it has mostly been improvements in the ruggedness of both. Some of the earlier systems that I knew about were lucky to last out teh year or were seen to be on at full blast on sunny clear days. Now they tend to be more reliable and certainly more economical to operate.

donnellyvj
04-11-2007, 11:05 AM
I am hoping that this storm blows in a little early. It would be nice to have some weather over night, as I will be camping higher up in Stowe. Wish me luck!
As for this April snow. Its to bad that most Ski mountains have started the closing process, if they are not already closed. I skied Killington on Easter and the condition were EXCELLENT. Killington claims over 3ft in the last 6 days. Its more 2 1/2ft. :D

Charlie
04-11-2007, 06:07 PM
thanks brad i have put in the tekmar control for boiler controls before .

I'm glad it works well for you .

Bill O
04-11-2007, 06:14 PM
April snow continues....

Winter storm warnings are up for much of New England (especially the mountainous areas). And yet another storm is forecast for the second half of the weekend. Originally progged to be rain it is now trending colder and looks like significant snow for higher elevations.

Brad
04-12-2007, 06:44 AM
April snow continues....

Winter storm warnings are up for much of New England (especially the mountainous areas). And yet another storm is forecast for the second half of the weekend. Originally progged to be rain it is now trending colder and looks like significant snow for higher elevations.
And I am stuck in NC for the weekend. The latest radar updates show snow moving across most of NH and starting into the southern Maine counties.

Joey Keyz
04-12-2007, 06:08 PM
I love snow and snow shoe hiking, but I gotta tell ya..........

I'm ready to put them away and get in some, "In the dirt climbing"!

Brad
04-13-2007, 05:34 AM
It has been snowing all night - no idea how much snow came down at the house in Maine. But, the driveway is already cleared (melted).

http://images24.fotki.com/v768/photos/8/8235/242566/__live_jpg-vi.jpg

In our small town there are 15 roads listed on the power company's web site as having no power. The trees are heavy with very wet snow and maybe some ice.

KD Talbot
04-13-2007, 03:40 PM
In Kingston all we got was rain and about an inch of slush that melted by morning.
KDT