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Troop/Crew 2
05-01-2007, 07:23 AM
Hi Folks,
I am A.S.M. for a Boy Scout / Venture Crew. We (13 of us) will be traversing the Presidential Range at the end of June.
Our Itinerary:
Friday will be stepping off from the Highland Center @ Crawford Notch on Friday afternoon then ascending to Mizpah Spring Hut for Friday evening.

Saturday we will be make the traverse using Crawford Path to Mt. Wash. then the Gulfside trail to Madison Hut.

Sunday we will make our decent on the Vallyway trail.

The experience of our group varies. One person has done this route before but, he did it all in one day! One third is very experienced hikers, middle third are good hikers but this will be their biggest challenge to date (Me). Bottom third needs work on conditioning, mental as well as physical. We are trying to get out on training hikes every weekend from now until our June hike. A fear of mine is I may have to ask a few Scouts to back out. My biggest fear is to take ill prepared people up on the range. We have until May 22 for people to get a full refund. I hate to make cuts but I may have to.

I’m looking for any advice I can get, mostly training tips and physical requirements. Also any unexpected hazards that anyone may have encountered. Any recommended (other than the basic) gear to pack. Any tips about what to expect in the huts and proper hut etiquette.

What ever I can get to be better prepared and to better prepare my group will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
A.S.M.
Troop/Crew 2

Bill O
05-01-2007, 08:16 AM
First off, the huts are a quiet mountain retreat where people look for a certain degree of peace and relaxation. The thought of 13 boy scouts could be disheartening to the other guests. If they aren't worn out from the hike make sure they respect the other people.

I'm not sure you are going to need to make cuts. Under good weather conditions its four fairly easy days. Now, four good weather days in a row are rare so be prepared for 40 degrees, solid rain, and wind. Keep in mind that rain in the 50s is enough to give the unprepared hypothermia.

Bring ear plugs for the huts. They're useful even when there are no boy scouts around.

You also might want to get them out on a hike with full weight backpacks. If they can't handle an easy hike with the packs they'll self cut for the real trek.

Also, be sure to stick around and ask some follow up questions. I know there's a lot more to cover, but I remember you started a thread a few months ago and dissappeared after that.

climbabout
05-01-2007, 09:11 AM
Here's my input - I have traveled that very route you are planning. Keep in mind the hike from mizpah over the summit all the way to madison hut is a long, long way for novice hikers. My son is a scout and from my experience, most troops have a wide variety of fitness levels, and hiking experience. This hike would not be a problem if all of them are in top shape and hardcore, experienced hikers, but those that have less stamina and motivation, are sure to struggle.

Be aware also that from Mt. Monroe all the way to Madison hut is completely above treeline and exposed to the weather - so before starting out on this section have a bailout plan and know where all the escape trails heading down are. This is probably the most important aspect of your overall plan.

You can get clothing suggestions off the amc or ems climb school website, Although I'll be happy to help you with that if you need. Also get out and hike with packs of 30-35lbs on hilly terrain as much as possible and for your actual trip, keep your packs as light as possible - for sleeping you just need a very light bag - although some people just bring a sheet - the amc supplies 2 blankets per bunk.

Hope this helps.
Tim

climbabout
05-01-2007, 09:21 AM
I meant to include this before - here's a great link from the chauvin guides website - it's their escape route plan for the winter traverses that they lead. Keep in mind that a lot of the info refers to winter campsites and such and that there is no camping above treeline in the white mountains in the summer, but the escape trails listed and that type of information still applies 12 months of the year.
http://www.chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presiescapeguide.htm

Tim

Bill O
05-01-2007, 09:23 AM
Mizpah to Madison? I agree, that is a long section. I just figured there was a stop at Lakes in there.

KD Talbot
05-01-2007, 09:56 AM
The information given here is excellent. I would only add that I wouldn't attempt this with novice hikers. I'm a pretty experienced hiker, not hardcore, but this is about as hardcore as hiking in the Whites gets. I've climbed Jefferson, then gone to Adams and Madison and down in the rain and found this to be about my limit. I'm not sure I would attempt Mizpah to Madison fully packed on a good day, let alone in the rain or hot sun. Rather than have people drop out, why not scale back a little. It seems to me that this plan with some of the hikers abilities in question is doomed for failure. A better plan to me would to be at Mizpah the first night and Lakes the second, then those who were still willing could make the climb to the summit of Washington in the morning before returning to pack out on the Ammonoosuc Trail. As mentioned in previous posts, getting the right weather is what it's all about. Good luck, take pictures and keep us posted as to what actually transpires.
KDT

Troop/Crew 2
05-01-2007, 10:04 AM
Thanks for the advice. I welcome all of it. Please feel free to ad anything you can think of. I'll be sure to stick around.

Bill O.,
No need to be concerned of the behavior of our boys. It will be 9 scouts and 4 adults. (Physical conditioning for a couple aside), these boys are the cream of the crop, all with impressive academic and scouting resumes. I would be proud and would never hesitate to take them in public anywhere at any time.

The actual group has 7 more adults who will be doing the M.W. summit and returning to Mizpah on Sat. evening.

Our training hikes have been and will continue to be 8-10 miles with 20-30lb. Packs. My concern is more along the lines of physical and intestinal fortitude to handle extreme conditions as the may occur. A couple scouts concern me. I fear they may not be taking the actual possibilities of extreme conditions serious enough (they don't know what they could be getting into). How do I train them for that?

Thanks
T/C 2

climbabout
05-01-2007, 10:53 AM
My concern is more along the lines of physical and intestinal fortitude to handle extreme conditions as the may occur. A couple scouts concern me. I fear they may not be taking the actual possibilities of extreme conditions serious enough (they don't know what they could be getting into). How do I train them for that?

Thanks
T/C 2

In my experience, there is little more you can do in this area other than to verbally stress to them what conditions are possible/probable in the Whites.

The best book I can recommend to you would be "Not Without Peril" - you can pick this up at any EMS store and most climbing shops that have a book section. You can probably get it on line as well. I thought they sold it at the Mount Washington online store - but I did not see it the last time I looked. This book contains some heart wrenching stories of deaths in the whites that occurred to people many of whom started out in benign conditions only to have the weather turn on them. One death occurred in the 80's not far from Madison hut in the summertime - I believe it was August - a father and I believe 2 young boys got caught in a typical summer storm and the father died of hypothermia. The sad part of this story is that they had the option of descending, but pressed on nonetheless in deteriorating conditions.

Beyond that, the best reality check can be had by experiencing extreme conditions firsthand - hopefully when you have an option to descend to shelter. I've been on many trips where even adult hikers are nonchalant and confident at the trailhead, until they first feel the wind and cold above treeline - that quickly and surely IS THE BEST TEACHER. I have never climbed or hiked with anyone, who didn't have respect for the whites after experiencing tough conditions. Hopefully you get a little taste of that at a safe time, and then have good weather the rest of the way.
Good luck
Tim

Troop/Crew 2
05-02-2007, 05:05 AM
Thanks all for the great links, advice and info. Please add more as you think of it. I'll keep you updated on our progress.
Thanks
T/C 2 (Tom)

rockin rex
05-02-2007, 09:20 AM
I have done this traverse many times and the weather is what makes or breaks it. You are fully at the mercy of the weather and that will dictate what you and the scouts are able to do. Climbabout and K.D. are right on in what they said. The most important item is knowing your escape routes. In nice weather Mitzpah to Madison is no problem. In bad weather Mitzpah to Lakes is a chore. My thought is why would you stay in a hut with scouts when you could stay at the perch or Gray Knob. Staying at either the perch or gray knob is alittle more low key, you cook your own food and have alittle more freedom. This also gives the kids who might not want to climb Adams or Madison the next day the chance to head down Lowes path while the others climb. The groups would still be able to meet at the same spot at the end. You asked how you teach kids about the perils of the traverse. It has to be experienced to understand it. You as leaders need to make sure they have the proper clothes in their packs and when the time comes to use them they will understand. Gloves,winter hat, fleece jacket, and windbreaker are items I never go above tree without. Good luck in the traverse and may the weather Gods smile upon your group.

Bill O
05-02-2007, 11:42 AM
My thought is why would you stay in a hut with scouts when you could stay at the perch or Gray Knob.

I'm thinking the reservations have been made. Good advice, but not likely to change this trip.

Brad
05-02-2007, 06:33 PM
Friends laugh at me mid summer when I pack long sleeve shirts and sweat shirts, fleece, knit hats, winter gloves - for a hike up Washington. Even on a nice day I take it all. I have been caught too many times in "nice weather" in snow and freezing rain the first week of August to not go prepared for anything.

Brad
05-02-2007, 06:36 PM
It is handy (even in summer) to have a long sleeve sweat shirt or the equivalent for each person. I mean an extra one. If the clouds roll in tight it can get hard at times to see the next rock cairn on the trail. Each hiker holds the end of a sleeve and the next person in line holds the other sleeve. The first person goes out looking for the cairn - till s/he sees it and then the others follow the sleeve. It is slow, but it works well in low visibility and keeps folks on the trail more than off it.

Troop/Crew 2
05-03-2007, 05:36 PM
Hi folks,
I just wanted to be clear. Although I am the “trip master” for the trip, this trip was put together by committee. We have a Troop with 44 registered Scouts and over 25 Scouters. The trip has been in the works since last summer. Many hike options and variations were considered and debated. So to answer the question, “My thought is why would you stay in a hut with scouts when you could stay at the perch or Gray Knob.”
This is what the Scouts wanted to do. It’s their troop and they decided from the options presented to them. They wanted to go high and far. And they wanted to go light. The trip was only opened to Scouts of certain age, rank and willingness to commit to the preparation (and cost). These are the top 9 of 44. All Eagle or Life rank. All “Order of the Arrow” Most members of our venture crew. I do have two Scouts that concern me and if we don’t feel they are ready physically or their hiking heads aren’t on straight, then they don’t go. The scouts made the commitment to this trip in order to “Scale up” not “Scale back”. To some this will be the biggest challenge to date but there are no novice hikers in the group.
In my previous posts I also may have understated the hiking and camping experience and credentials of our group of leaders. As a group, we are well qualified for this hike. It was my intent to come here and pick the brain of some experts in and of the “Whites”. To pick up a few training tips and maybe catch something we/I may have over looked both on the trail and in the huts. It would be irresponsible for me to do anything less. I wanted to be clear that we are not a bunch flatlander cubs heading up a hill for the first time (which is how I may have sounded). So far the information has been great. Thanks and keep it coming.
T/C 2

Bill O
05-03-2007, 06:00 PM
I think they'll be fine. It will be a good adventure and a challenging day from Mitzpah to Madison. It will be a rewarding accomplishment.

Training with a pack will help. No need to go overboard though. Most people who run the marathon never even run the full distance until the race.

I think you just need to be careful if the weather is wet and cold. Like 50's and light rain or even thick fog. You might not feel cold like in the winter but your body temp could slowly be dropping.

I always bring a hat and light gloves to the Whites even in the summer.

Also...let's not go overboard here. If you followed everyone's recommendations you'd have 150 pound packs and you wouldn't leave the parking lot if there was a cloud within 100 miles. Tens of thousands of people hike in the Whites every year with poor clothing, bad weather, and no experience and they all seem to survive somehow. Common sense will get you a long way.

climbabout
05-03-2007, 07:57 PM
tc/2 Thanks for the update/clarification - your group experience and commitment is much clearer now. The only thing I can think to add is to expound on bill o's post - going light is fine as long as you bring adequate clothing to protect yourselves if you get caught above treeline when the weather turns - that is be sure all of you are wearing a synthetic top skin layer, and have with you a fleece or similar insulating layer and some type of waterproof/breathable jacket, fleece or wool cap and gloves. Wind pants would be nice as well. 2 liters of water each and some trail snacks as well as a lightweight sleeping pad and flashlight/compass and trail maps. Each of you should be able to keep your packs at 20-25lbs. Good luck - the forum is pulling for a safe and enjoyable trip for you.
Tim

Steve M
05-03-2007, 10:15 PM
Good luck guys! I have fond memories of my scouting days. We did alot of hiking and camping in CT and those were some of the most memerable times of my life. Your giving those guys something they will carry with them for the rest of their lives!

rockin rex
05-04-2007, 06:24 AM
If the scouts chose to stay at the huts and they are setting the order of the trip then enjoy. Madison hut is a GREAT place and I have stayed there a few times. The croo is usually awesome and after a long day over the traverse you folks will be very happy to be there. The only problem is you need to make sure you make it in by dinner or you might miss out. I have made it in late a few times and have been able to eat with the croo but it is totally up to them. Be sure to leave Mitzpah right after breakfast so you have plenty of time to make it across. You also want to figure in a break at the top of Washington. The other item is seeing you are a large group you might want to see if the croo at Madison can hold bunks for you in the same bunk room.
The bunks go on a first come basis and last in gets last choice. Your group would probably like to be together in the same bunk room so you will need to pre arrange that. When lights go out you can throw on a head lamp and stay up in the common room reading or playing games (they have a bunch)
as long as you are quiet. Madison Hut is also one of the best for sunsets and sunrises. Enjoy the hike and hope you and the scouts have an amazing time.

Troop/Crew 2
05-06-2007, 12:53 PM
One of the Scouts I was concerned about opted out of the hike. I'm glad he did it on his own. I didn't want to ask him to. He's a great kid. He is going to the World Jamboree in England this summer and he "needs concentrate on prep for that." The second Scout preformed poorly on yesterdays training hike (5 fast miles in full pack. Hilly but, nothing steep). His Dad is one of the adults on the trip and he's aware of his son’s stamina issue. If he's not ready I'm sure they won't force the issue.

Question: Does anyone know of any hiking or climbing film documentaries of the White Mountains. We are going to have pizza and movie night for the "Presidential Patrol" and we were looking for something along those lines. If not, any suggestions?
I got the book "Not with out Peril". I just started it. Makes you think...Thanks for the tip. I also got "Tales told from the shadows of the White Mountains". Should be more of a fun read.

Great forum!

Thanks for the encouragement.

Tom

Joey Keyz
05-06-2007, 01:46 PM
Good luck.......have fun and be safe Tom.

Looking forward to pictures and stories when you return.

Joey

climbabout
05-07-2007, 08:11 AM
Tom - sounds like things are falling in place for you. I'm sure you'll gain a lot of wisdom from "Not Without Peril" - best I've ever read about the White Mountains. I'm not aware of any video's specifically dealing with the White's, but you might want to contact the AMC desk in Pinkham Notch - they have a good selection of books there and they may have a video, that fits what you are looking for. They are always very helpful.
Tim

Troop/Crew 2
05-29-2007, 12:29 PM
Well, a lot has happened since my last posting. Our group was reduced from 20 to 14. Some solid training/shakedown hikes seemed to help work things out for the better.

Question: Mizpah to Madison in 10 hrs? 14 of us in pretty good shape. Our goal is to hit the trail after breakfast at Mizpah, half hour lunch at Mt Washington and make dinner at Madison. Obviously weather is a factor.

Waddaya think?

Tom

rockin rex
05-29-2007, 12:39 PM
Figure 2 miles an hour for the hike and you should be right on. You will also want to take some breaks on the summits so figure an hour for all breaks including the half hour on Washington. You guys if the weather is nice should have no problem making Madison for dinner. Good luck and enjoy!!
Hiking for dinner will keep your group moving. The hut desserts are outstanding!!!!!!!!

climbabout
05-29-2007, 01:15 PM
Well, a lot has happened since my last posting. Our group was reduced from 20 to 14. Some solid training/shakedown hikes seemed to help work things out for the better.

Question: Mizpah to Madison in 10 hrs? 14 of us in pretty good shape. Our goal is to hit the trail after breakfast at Mizpah, half hour lunch at Mt Washington and make dinner at Madison. Obviously weather is a factor.

Waddaya think?

Tom
Tom - my .02 - it's doable with all of you in good shape, (although I'm not sure how enjoyable) - you need a very aggressive pace - to complete it. 2 miles per hour is a quick pace on that terrain (lots of rock hopping and up and down)- you may need to skip some of the summit loops. Be sure all are packed and bunks squared away before breakfast - so you can bolt right after you eat. Good luck - I hope the weather is with you. Looking forward to your trip report.
Tim

Troop/Crew 2
06-20-2007, 03:59 AM
Hi Folks,
One last question before we embark on our adventure this weekend.

What is the customary gratuity for the croo at the huts. We have a group of 14. About how much per person?

Our “Presidential Patrol” is ready to roll! Friday afternoon we hike from the Highland Center to Mizpah. Saturday (will be a hustle) from Mizpah to Madison (Crawford Path-Gulfside Trail). Sunday we descend down Valley Way Trail. Look for us! Say Hello……

Tom

Bill O
06-20-2007, 07:15 AM
I didn't know there was one.

I don't think its necessary, but if you decide to give I'm sure they'll appreciate anything.

climbabout
06-20-2007, 07:36 AM
It's really whatever you feel comfortable with. These kids work incredibly hard for little pay under adverse conditions, often being called on to assist hikers in trouble. Any amount is appreciated. Customary, from what I have observed is anywhere from a couple of dollars up to 5 or 10 pp.

billysinc
06-20-2007, 10:32 AM
If you've ever stayed at a hut you know what the morning entertainment usually is. They do a small (usually) funny skit that at the end hints towards leaving a tip. Some people leave one, some don't. For a group your size it's tough to say. The AMC hut fees have gone up quite a bit in recent years. If I'm not mistaken the non-AMC fee is $90 this year and like Climbabout has said I don't think the kids working at the huts get very much of that. I'd leave them something but not go overboard.

rockin rex
06-20-2007, 12:44 PM
The Croo is what makes or breaks the hut. I have had much interaction with hut croo's and they never cease to amaze me!! They are the hut. They clean, they cook, they entertain as host and last but not least they carry all the food in on their backs that the guest eat. In emergency situations they are also the first to be called to help out. When my family and I stay at a hut we always leave a 20.00 in the croo jar. I feel between 5.00 and 10.00 per person is fair. If you see the croo on the trail with a 100 plus pounds on their backs you will agreee. You will also agree if god forbid you are in an emergency situation and they show up to help. The croo survives on the tips that guest leave so please keep that in mind. To the scout troop good luck on your Presi traverse and please let us know how it goes. Good luck.

FisherCat
06-20-2007, 05:38 PM
Never forget the value of foodstuffs! If you get to a hut early enough and can keep it in your pack where its not too affected by body heat, I've taken them some bananas and/or oranges.

Steve M
06-20-2007, 11:10 PM
If you are going to have a group of 14 I would say a gratuity of at least $70 would be a fair amount. It might seem like a lot but with all that the croo does in a day they are well worth it. They are a great bunch of kids with a lot of heart! I wish I could go with you all. It should be an awesome trip. I pray the weather works in your favor. Have a great time!!!

Brad
06-21-2007, 04:52 AM
A Croo View - between Lakes of the Clouds and the summit.

http://images24.fotki.com/v873/photos/8/8235/4998508/IMG_6183a-vi.jpg

rockin rex
06-23-2007, 05:58 AM
I am really interested in this group and am saying a prayer that all goes well with no problems. They have taken on a big hike and I think with what I have read they should do just fine. They stayed at Mizpah last night and today will be doing the big Presi traverse to Madison. Anyone who sees the group of 14 cheer them on. They have a big day ahead of them.

rockin rex
06-23-2007, 06:32 AM
I guess I should have checked the summit weather before I did my last post but I just checked it now and boy this group looks to be in for a rough day. Making Mizpah to Madison in these conditions will be near impossible. Between the high wind speeds and very low wind chills this is going to be a challange for ANYONE above tree today. The problem is with these conditions your mileage is cut way back. Looks like there might even be some ice and snow up there today. The main thing is the groups safety and I pray that the group stays safe and out of harms way.

Bill O
06-23-2007, 08:08 AM
I agree, looks bad out there today.

Lakes to Madison would be a long hike today. Mizpah to Madison is really going to be pushing it.

Steve M
06-23-2007, 09:06 AM
Tom seems to be a fairly cautious guy. I'm sure he will get those kids off the mountains if he is apprehensive. It's just a shame they couldn't have a better day for this hike since they planned and worked so hard for it.

climbabout
06-23-2007, 12:16 PM
Tom seemed to me to be prudent and cautious and asked all the right questions. All important factors were discussed in this post, including clothing, and weather and a bailout plan. He sounds like the type of person to make the right decision. Assuming all goes well, as I'm confident it will with a good, informed leader, this could be a great learning experience for these boys. Knowing when to turn back in the face of bad weather, especially the first time out is a valuable lesson learned and will make them safer hikers in the future. Getting a safe dose of what the mountain can dish out - and having a plan to bail and executing it is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact a perfect blue bird, sunny day with no wind can give a novice a false sense of security above treeline and can lead to disaster on subsequent trips. God Speed to them - I'm sure they'll have a story to tell with a safe ending for all.
Tim

Bill O
06-23-2007, 02:36 PM
As bad as the weather is today I wouldn't mind being up there. I'd love to be doing something like a Mizpah to Lakes hike. A challenging, cold, wet hike but short enough to make it. Sure, the hike is going to be miserable but I love that feeling of pulling into safety at Lakes. Changing into dry clothes and saying to myself, "glad I'm not out hiking."

Steve M
06-23-2007, 04:38 PM
I'm an all weather hiker also. Last May we hiked to Lonesome lake hut in solid, steady rain and 40 degree temps. We even saw sleet on the trip back. If I'm prepared I don't care what the weather. Although above tree line can be a whole different animal.

Breeze
06-23-2007, 06:46 PM
I'm sure they were challenged today.

The summit temps did not budge above 32F until 4 PM when it leaped to 33 F, and the winds diminished to 50 MPH. At about that same time, there looked to be some precip developing in the Great Gulf.

I can't wait for the de-briefing.

Breeze

Brad
06-24-2007, 03:29 AM
I'm sure they were challenged today.

The summit temps did not budge above 32F until 4 PM when it leaped to 33 F, and the winds diminished to 50 MPH. At about that same time, there looked to be some precip developing in the Great Gulf.

I can't wait for the de-briefing.

Breeze
Even now at 3 AM it still would not feel like summer up there.

http://images25.fotki.com/v898/photos/1/1002902/4159838/20070624_030509_conditions-vi.jpg

Steve M
06-24-2007, 10:19 AM
Yep, cold weekend on the rockpile. Today looks to be a bit nicer. At least they will see the sun.

Andrew
06-24-2007, 10:26 AM
Atleast experiencing that kind of weather will give them all respect for the white mountains :)

I'm starting my presidential hike tomorrow. The weather looks decent for the 3 days. The only bad thing is we're not staying at the huts, we're tenting it haha.

Steve M
06-24-2007, 10:40 AM
Have a great time, stay safe, and post a trip report!:)

Troop/Crew 2
06-25-2007, 10:55 AM
Wow Folks,
Thanks for taking such an interest in our hike! I don't think our story will disappoint. The trip up to Mizpah on Friday (in spite of some downpours) was a piece of cake. We made it to the hut in plenty of time. The hut was awesome and the boys (and adults) loved it. Thank god for the AMC they do a great job!
Sat. 7:50 we set out in the fog for Madison. Considering the forecast our goal was to reach Eisenhower and re-evaluate. We skipped the Jackson loop and headed directly over Pierce. The wind was picking up and visibility was poor. By the time we hit the Eisenhower loop visibility was close to zero and the wind gusts had to be 70’s. We headed for the summit anyhow. I never experienced anything like it! We could barely stand up! We lost two back pack covers without even realizing it! I grew up on the ocean and never felt anything like that before in my life. The cloud we were in was thick and black and the wind was screaming. At one point I turned facing the wind slightly off balance and got blown right on my butt! The boys were amazing. If we had said we were heading for Lakes they wouldn’t have hesitated. Instead we bailed down Edmonds. When we hit Mt. Clinton Road we hoofed it back to two of our vans parked at the Crawford path trailhead. We piled (literally) in the vans then swung by the cog and picked up another car we parked there in case we had to bail at Washington. The Troop choked down lunch on the ride as we swung over to Appalachia to bust hump up the Valley Way and try and make it to Madison Hut for dinner. Before we left we called Pinkham Notch and asked them to radio the hut and tell them we would be there but maybe a little late.
We hit the trail about 2:45. When I saw the sign that said Madison hut 1.2 miles I thought we were in good shape to make dinner at 6:00. With about .25 miles to go we let the horses (boys) run. The adults were struggling. I thought I was going to puke on my shoes! We were all in the hut by 6:20. The Croo held dinner for us and of course they (and dinner) were awesome. If you are in Madison Hut check the guest log for 6/24. I left a little limerick. (Our resident Eagle Scout and hiker extraordinaire, Sean, was quick to add “A Scout is Cheerful” to the bottom of it.)
Sunday after breakfast most of the troop left their packs behind and did the Madison Summit. I gladly stayed back with some other sore people. After they returned we made a nice leisurely decent down Valley Way. Although the trip did not go as planned, the boys performed remarkably! They never complained. These kids never cease to amaze me.
I’m really not supposed to post any photos of the troop on the internet without permission. When the pics get posted on the troop website I will post a link to it.

http://www.troop2milford.org/

Thanks again for all your help and concern. You folks were great!
Tom
Troop/Crew 2

climbabout
06-25-2007, 12:53 PM
Wow - sounds like all your planning paid off - having a car down the ammo trail was smart thinking. Sounds like the boys had the adventure of a lifetime and learned a lot about mountain weather and what it's capable of. You and your other leaders gave them more than you can imagine - I'm sure they'll all be safer hikers in the future having this experience to draw on. Safe mountain travel is all about advance planning and having a contingency plan - looking forward to your pics when they are posted. I'll see them when I return - heading to Alaska tomorrow with RMI for a Mckinley climb - we're all glad at the outcome of your trip.
Tim

Brad
06-25-2007, 01:37 PM
Tom,

A great trip report and it sounds like it all went according to plan. The great example for folks is that you planned for anything. There was a Plan A and a Plan B and even a Plan C. As things came up you were able to deal with it and have a good time.

I can remember my first climb up Mt Washington and the thrill of the event. I can remember the snow storm we got caught in the first week of August - and other times up there. Your boys will remember this trip for ever.

Thanks for posting the update. And even more importantly, thanks for what you are doing for the boys and your willingness to give them experiences of a lifetime.

rockin rex
06-25-2007, 02:30 PM
This trip report should be read by ALL groups that are looking to go above tree. This is picture perfect to how things should be done. You as leaders have made a trip that these fine young men will never forget. You let the young men experience the severe mountain weather but keeping their safety in mind at all times. Having the cars placed as you did was SMART thinking.
I am so glad the group enjoyed Mizpah and Madison so much. They are great huts. Madison is one of my favorites. Getting to Madison in such bad weather you again made the perfect decision taking the Valley Way. This trail is almost all below tree right to the hut door. Awesome planning and I am so happy to hear even with the changes that you had such a wonderful time. These boys are lucky to have such fine leaders.

FisherCat
06-25-2007, 02:31 PM
Excellent report and very good advance planning. Nothing like a hike in wind,cloud,&fog. They make some of the greatest trips. Best thing is, now those boys have the NH Hiking Fever and will be back to do it again!

Bill O
06-25-2007, 03:08 PM
Nice trip report. Glad everyone was safe and you were able to salvage your night at Madison Hut.

Steve M
06-26-2007, 01:42 AM
What else can I say that hasn't been said. Thanks for posting a report and looking forward to the photos.

Be_Prepared
06-26-2007, 08:19 PM
Great summary of reality! I would like to share it with the guys in our troop. It's not unusual to need to go to Plan B, or Plan C, or Plan I (improvise). Usually, they have fun anyway, but, it also seems like many of them want to push on when it's not prudent. It's nice to share that other Troops have to adjust based on conditions, and it is part of what we're trying to teach them to learn to do on their own for when they are the "responsible adults".

Glad you had a successful trip!

Andrew
07-01-2007, 07:41 PM
I will have a hike report in a few days when I have time to upload the massive amount of pics haha.

Scared But Eager
01-29-2008, 05:03 PM
I would like to do a one-day traverse in mid-June of this year. I have only limited experience leading hikes and then only in the Olympic Mountains, which I highly recommend (but keep it quiet, huh? :cool: ). I am comfortable with the physical conditioning necessary and am trying to educate myself on the routes, escape routes, weather, essentials and other logistics. I just read the thread on the boy scouts, and it got pretty compelling there at the end - glad they got off the mountain! So far I've got no takers, but I am trying to get some of my 46-year-old buddies to commit. Any suggestions on guides, where to leave a car or such? I've downloaded the Chauvin guides route charts (incl. escape routes), and I've ordered both Not Without Peril and the Washburn map of Mt. Washington and the Presidential range.

Hope to hear from any of you, and thanks!