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Thread: Continuing Hiker Education Exercise

  1. #21
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    I am looking at this as an exercise. Believe me I know that hiking is the sport of self reliance. You must be prepared to rescue yourself.

    However, this guy was not. I reviewed the facts given and have to assume that this guy was brought out because of the potential for this individual to become hypothermic.

    Also, because of his location, it did not present a great risk to go get him.

    But it was a great risk to leave him in that weather as unprepared as he was.

    Lastly, he was brought out because it was reasonable in this case with all of the facts considered.
    Doug


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  2. #22
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    Maybe he got fetched out because America is full of incredibly compassionate and caring people who help people in need regardless of whether or not they made dumb choices.
    Bill
    Next up: Vermont City Marathon: May, 2011
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill O View Post
    Maybe he got fetched out because America is full of incredibly compassionate and caring people who help people in need regardless of whether or not they made dumb choices.
    You da man..........
    Steve
    Is there really any BAD weather???

  4. #24
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    While I agree that hiking in jeans with no pack isn't the best thing a hiker could do....

    is it possible there's more to this story, some info we don't know about?

    Perhaps he had a pack and lost it somehow? Had he been planning on meeting someone along the trail (that person may have been carrying gear)?

    I know there are unprepared people out there. I'm just saying we don't know the full story here. He may well have been an idiot. Or there could be details of this story which soften our hearts a bit.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill O View Post
    Maybe he got fetched out because America is full of incredibly compassionate and caring people who help people in need regardless of whether or not they made dumb choices.
    You are definitely right Bill. The people on the SAR teams and others who routinely participate in these rescues are absolutely the most caring and selfless people you'll ever find. Same goes for the many others who are just out on the trail and go way out of their way to help other hikers who are in need.

    What really makes me angry is that these people regularly get put at risk by those who go out there unprepared and get themselves needlessly in trouble. Even worse, many feel that SAR is a service provided to all those who are in the mountains and they don't feel the need to be prepared because they have this safety net. Worst of all are the cases where this sort of person is rescued and doesn't feel any sense of remorse since "SAR was just doing their job".

    So should they be left out there? Probably not. There are too many ways that leaving someone like this in the woods even in non-extreme conditions could end in disaster. It would be nice if there were a better way. There have been many debates about fines, assessing the cost of rescue operations, requiring "certification" or "licenses" to hike and many others. All of these have their problems. No really good solution.

    I'd still like to know what the answer is to the original "quiz" from Breeze.
    Mark

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  6. #26
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    I'm guessing this hiker had no intention of requiring someone to rescue him. If he did indeed hike up without gear, he's guilty of ignorance, or there was some reason of which we know nothing about.

    I'm not so inclined to judge folks who need to be rescued. We need to learn from them, yes. I don't feel anger toward anyone, though. Unprepared hikers with children are another story, that admittedly gets to me. This guy may have been an idiot when it comes to hiking properly. I guess I don't understand why there is a sense of fury toward him, though.

    I would like to perhaps one day become part of a SAR team, when the kids are older. By then I should have a heap of hiking experience under my belt and be in much better shape. Speaking only for myself, I don't think I'd be upset at having to rescue this particualr kind of hiker -- unless I had to rescue the same hiker twice for the same stupid mistake (then I'd be ticked).

    I would like to see some form of required hiker education before anyone's allowed on the trails. However, in reality I have no idea how that could possibly work. Can't exactly place guards along the trail and make hikers flash their permission cards...
    Last edited by TrishandAlex; 09-10-2008 at 09:41 AM.

  7. #27
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    I really didn't intend this to be a quiz with certain right answers. Thinking points and discussion were more in my mind.

    Check out the intersection of Clay Brook with the Boundary Line Trail, compare to the location of the Ammo Trail Head.


    Breeze

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breeze View Post
    I really didn't intend this to be a quiz with certain right answers. Thinking points and discussion were more in my mind.

    Check out the intersection of Clay Brook with the Boundary Line Trail, compare to the location of the Ammo Trail Head.


    Breeze
    So he's basically walked a mile and a half past his car and is now at the brook crossing. He was obviously very unaware of his location to turn right on the BLT. If he had tried to retrace his steps from there who knows which way he would have gone when he got back to the Jewell. Obviously wasn't very far for someone to hike in and get him (since they guessed right). What were the temps like in the valley at that point? Was he in any danger of hypothermia?
    Mark

    Keep close to Nature's heart...
    and break clear away, once in awhile,
    and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods.
    Wash your spirit clean. - John Muir


    Hiking photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/mtruman42
    Hiking Blog: http://theramblingsblog.blogspot.com/
    Seek the 2011 Peak page: Mark Truman's Pledge Page

  9. #29
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    I don't want to edit my post of a few minutes ago, no need to go there.

    For the registered users online, just look at how many non-registered guests we have. Some of these folks are looking for information about MWO, some are thinking about taking a walk in foliage season, and I commend them for "seeking information".

    IF discussion here motivates a potential hiker of MW to think/rethink/re-evaluate and search out more information, it is a GOOD THING!

    Breeze

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtruman View Post
    So he's basically walked a mile and a half past his car and is now at the brook crossing. He was obviously very unaware of his location to turn right on the BLT. If he had tried to retrace his steps from there who knows which way he would have gone when he got back to the Jewell. Obviously wasn't very far for someone to hike in and get him (since they guessed right). What were the temps like in the valley at that point? Was he in any danger of hypothermia?
    Temps in the valley were hovering around 46 F, winds at surface gusting 20-35 mph and he was soaked to the skin, not to mention he was " Off Trail" ( bushwhacking) at that point. He knew he was lost and needed help.

    I'll GUESS the "rescue" decision was made on the hypothermia possibility. He was cogent enough to make the 911 call and describe his surroundings, but he really didn't know where he was in any NSEW fashion.

    Yes, he needed help at that point, and he got it.

    That last wrong-way turn wasn't his first mistake, however.

    Breeze

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