Want to climb Mt. Washington, info needed

[b1029384756]

Regarding follow up some things in my post that you replied to:

There's nothing wrong with a thermos, but a nalgene bottle is much lighter in weight - wrapped in a sock and put upside down in your pack - freezing should not become a problem. And again - whatever you buy, make sure it has a wide mouth. I find for a day trip up and down 2-3 liters is just right.

Okay, that's what I'll go with, then.

Regarding the AMC lodging - remember, that 67.00 includes dinner and breakfast - you'd be hard pressed to find a much cheaper option when you factor in the cost of 2 meals on top of lodging, not to mention it's convenience to the trailhead, and availability of expertise and weather info. - no need to rise at 3am.

True, but when another poster gave me an alternative for $25, I don't think the breakfast and dinner justifies spending an extra $40 a night. It's rare that I spend $20 on a meal most days, I'm usually fine with half that, and I didn't become 280 lbs by not eating well, even though I don't really know how to cook. I'd rather get an early start anyway, so I won't have to turn back only due to losing daylight if I find that it takes me a bit longer than I expect.

Regarding snacks - if the weather is severe and the wind is blowing - the less fuss you encounter eating the better - most experienced winter alpinists will tell you to bring food you enjoy and can eat and digest easily - this is no place for experimentation.

Understood, but it's not really experimentation, since I've eaten them before in jail, and while I'd prefer McDonald's food, they're adequate and do provide plenty of calories.

Lastly - do as much research as you can regarding this mountain and the perils of climbing it alone. I'm not one to preach, but this is NOT a good mountain, nor time of year to experiment and learn on your own. Simple mistakes here often result in death. And it's rarely a big mistake, but a string of small ones that lead to disaster. None of us here point these things out to scare people, we just like to see people safely enjoy Mt Washington.

A guide, while not cheap, can be the best investment you can make in your own life.

All that said, the best advice I can give you, is don't be afraid to turn back if things aren't going well - the mountain will be here long after we're all gone.
Good Luck,
Tim

I'll keep that in mind, and will turn back if I get to a point where I don't think I can make it.

p.s. - let us know your name - it makes communicating more pleasant

Thanks again for the info.

I still need more specific info on cameras from anyone who's been there before, if anyone can help with that.

[Bill O]

Is this thread for real?

[b1029384756]

Is this thread for real?

Meaning that I'm planning to go about this the wrong way? I'm not here to ask for advice and then be unwilling to follow any of it (I'm going with the recommendations for water bottles and lodging that the posters here suggested), but the whole guide thing isn't really my style for the reasons I stated above. I'm not putting anyone but myself in danger by not following that one piece of advice, and will try to mitigate the risk in other ways as much as is practical. I realize that I'm inexperienced and may be asking some questions that the rest of you consider to be stupid, but we all have to start somewhere. All attempts to help are appreciated even if I don't plan to do everything suggested. I'm sure someone from here will end up seeing me in person within the next week to confirm that I am indeed a real person if that's necessary.

Still need camera help, I'll go with the ziploc bag that someone suggested, but still don't know whether to bring my Canon digital or a disposable (film? disposable digital? waterproof?), and someone said it's hit or miss, but I just need info that's a little more substantive. I thought this'd be a good place to ask, since there's an entire subforum devoted to photography, so there's bound to be people here that have climbed in the winter with their cameras.

One thing in favor of bringing my digital is that it has a self timer so I can have a picture of myself next to the signpost at the top (if I make it there), but I hear that there's usually plenty of people at the summit, so most likely someone wouldn't mind taking my picture for me.

[krummholz]

Okay, I'm going to jump into this! For what it's worth:

If you're going up the Lion Head winter route on the weekend and the weather is decent, you'll have plenty of company and won't be alone. If going by another route or on a week day or when the weather isn't good (meaning mainly low enough winds), you're definitely taking a risk.

If you fill your canteen/water bottle/whatever with hot water, you'll probably be okay unless the temp is well below zero.

I don't know what your military winter boots are like, but IME might not have crampons that fit with those. Personally, as I've discussed on this forum before, I like Sorel boots with strap-on crampons, but I seem to be the oddball in that respect. Most people seem to use plastic mountaineering boots with step-in crampons. IME has the step-in type and maybe not the others, but I don't know for sure.

Your main chance for needing to use an ice axe is on the steep part of the Lions Head winter route. It is amazingly steep. If conditions are icy, you should go up into the lower part of Tucks and practice on a steep slope with a good runout before you go up the Lions Head.

The weather is the big deal. Wait for a day with low winds. Have face protection, and decide at the Lions Head above treeline if it's good enough conditions to continue.

[b1029384756]

Okay, I'm going to jump into this! For what it's worth:

If you're going up the Lion Head winter route on the weekend and the weather is decent, you'll have plenty of company and won't be alone. If going by another route or on a week day or when the weather isn't good (meaning mainly low enough winds), you're definitely taking a risk.

If you fill your canteen/water bottle/whatever with hot water, you'll probably be okay unless the temp is well below zero.

I'm going up Lion Head, as all information I've found suggests that it's the route most suited to beginners. It will be on a weekend, most likely on a Saturday, the 24th. So, I'm good in that regard. I'm sure the temperature definitely will be below zero though.

I assume I can fill my water bottles at the cabin at the start of the trail? Also, I know that hot water freezes before cold water outside (seems counterintuitive but it's due to mass loss from evaporation of the hot water), are you sure I shouldn't just use room temperature water? Maybe you're right in a waterproof container as opposed to an open bucket. In any case, it seems I'll be bringing more than one water bottle, so I'd fill up at least one with room temperature water so I could drink it right away as opposed to being unable (or at least not wanting to) drink for the first couple of hours because my water bottles only have warm water in them.

I don't know what your military winter boots are like, but IME might not have crampons that fit with those. Personally, as I've discussed on this forum before, I like Sorel boots with strap-on crampons, but I seem to be the oddball in that respect. Most people seem to use plastic mountaineering boots with step-in crampons. IME has the step-in type and maybe not the others, but I don't know for sure.

http://store.colemans.com/cart/extre...ued-p-751.html

These are the boots I have (bought from eBay for $60). They just arrived via UPS as I finished with my previous post. Hmm...when I talked to IME on the phone, the guy there told me he wasn't familiar with military boots but assured me he had crampons for larger feet, but I guess now I don't know if they'll fit those particular boots. Any backup options in the area if IME doesn't have anything? I talked to EMS and they said that they only rent boots and crampons together, at some high price (I think it was $40). Buying a set might be an option but I'm really trying to keep the costs down for now. Are there any other stores that rent in the area?

Your main chance for needing to use an ice axe is on the steep part of the Lions Head winter route. It is amazingly steep. If conditions are icy, you should go up into the lower part of Tucks and practice on a steep slope with a good runout before you go up the Lions Head.

The weather is the big deal. Wait for a day with low winds. Have face protection, and decide at the Lions Head above treeline if it's good enough conditions to continue.

Noted. I have face protection (just bought a waterproof balaclava at Dick's). Thanks for the info.

[Steve M]

Meaning that I'm planning to go about this the wrong way? I'm not here to ask for advice and then be unwilling to follow any of it (I'm going with the recommendations for water bottles and lodging that the posters here suggested), but the whole guide thing isn't really my style for the reasons I stated above. I'm not putting anyone but myself in danger by not following that one piece of advice, and will try to mitigate the risk in other ways as much as is practical. I realize that I'm inexperienced and may be asking some questions that the rest of you consider to be stupid, but we all have to start somewhere. All attempts to help are appreciated even if I don't plan to do everything suggested. I'm sure someone from here will end up seeing me in person within the next week to confirm that I am indeed a real person if that's necessary.

Still need camera help, I'll go with the ziploc bag that someone suggested, but still don't know whether to bring my Canon digital or a disposable (film? disposable digital? waterproof?), and someone said it's hit or miss, but I just need info that's a little more substantive. I thought this'd be a good place to ask, since there's an entire subforum devoted to photography, so there's bound to be people here that have climbed in the winter with their cameras.

One thing in favor of bringing my digital is that it has a self timer so I can have a picture of myself next to the signpost at the top (if I make it there), but I hear that there's usually plenty of people at the summit, so most likely someone wouldn't mind taking my picture for me.

In no way do I mean this to be rude or demeaning to you. If you haven't already, take a look at this link: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...on/shea-text/1

and if you have a chance read the book "Not without Peril" by Nicholas Howe. It is very interesting stuff. If you have then just disregard my post and have a safe trip. Make sure you post a trip report and photos when you get back.

[Bill O]

First. Let's stop quoting long paragraphs.

Second. No really, is this thread for real?

Third. Hot water does not freeze before cold. That's just dump science. Like standing an egg on end on the equinox.

[krummholz]

1. Lions Head can be considered the beginner's route because more people go up that way in winter than any other way, it's the shortest route, it starts at Pinkham, it's on the leeward side of the mountain, and you almost never need snowshoes. But there's one stretch of it that can be a bit tricky, between 4000 and 5000 feet in elevation, when it climbs 1000+ vertical feet in less than half a mile. That's the "ice axe" section that can be dangerous.

2. I tried clicking on the Coleman link but for some reason it didn't work. If your boots are soft leather with felt liners, like my Sorel boots, they're great in winter but won't take the step-in crampons. If they're the hard plastic boots, they'll take those crampons. I'm guessing by the price they're not the plastic boots, but I could be wrong. Maybe give IME a call and ask. It's just that those soft winter boots need strap-on crampons. Like I said, I personally prefer those, but a lot of people use the plastic boots, and I'm guessing IME is oriented toward the plastics. Could be wrong.

3. Hot water freezing faster---interesting. I did a quick Google of that. Apparently faster evaporation of hot water can be a factor in faster freezing. Don't see how that could be a problem in a closed container. I always fill my water bottle with hot water when I go winter hiking. It seems to stay warm a long time.

4. Face protection--you'll be glad you have it!

[b1029384756]

In no way do I mean this to be rude or demeaning to you. If you haven't already, take a look at this link: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...on/shea-text/1

and if you have a chance read the book "Not without Peril" by Nicholas Howe. It is very interesting stuff. If you have then just disregard my post and have a safe trip. Make sure you post a trip report and photos when you get back.

Just looked at the link, a good read. Perfect timing, I'm actually heading out the door right now to drop something off to a friend who works in a book store, so I'll look for the book while I'm there.

Since you have your own photo page and all, can you tell me anything about my camera dilemma? I'll definitely post something when I get back, hopefully, and pictures as well if I can find out what to use to take them. Thanks in advance.

[Bill O]

Fourth. Consider hiking up to Tuckerman Ravine and taking a look around. You won't need crampons and you can see how unprepared you are to go higher.